Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
Welcome to Epochal Growth, the podcast dedicated to transforming the way we lead by embodying the change we seek. Embracing the belief that we are the leaders we’ve been waiting for, our mission is to empower leaders to create impactful and lasting transformations in their organizations.
Hosted by industry expert Sarah Caminiti, each episode brings together visionary leaders and change-makers to explore the profound impact of inclusive and intentional leadership. Through engaging conversations and insightful discussions, we reveal how these approaches can revolutionize businesses and drive innovation.
At Epochal Growth, we are passionate about showcasing the transformative power of intentional actions and inclusive practices. Whether you are a seasoned entrepreneur, an aspiring leader, or someone passionate about business transformation, our podcast provides valuable insights and practical advice to help you lead differently and inspire growth.
Join us on this journey to unlock the potential for transformative business success. Tune in to Epochal Growth and start being the change you seek in leadership.
Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
Creating Space for Growth: Why Purpose Matters with Suneet Bhatt
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The best story you ever told wasn't memorized, it was just known and felt very deeply...
Discover the transformative journey of personal growth and purpose as we welcome Suneet Bhatt, the founder of My Authentic Journey, to the final episode of the podcast. Unearth the four significant eras of life, as inspired by geologic eras themselves, and learn how to embrace each phase—from the carefree days of childhood to the legacy-focused years. Suneet shares how vulnerability and presence can guide us through these stages, encouraging us to be intentional in our growth, allowing past experiences to mold but not define us. Expect actionable insights that will empower you to navigate life's transitions with clarity and purpose.
In an unexpected twist, find out how a job at Victoria's Secret and a quirky, poorly-drawn alpaca became pivotal in recognizing inherent leadership qualities and the significance of community. Suneet unfolds his creative journey, offering a fresh perspective on nurturing innate abilities and their impact on personal education and growth. This episode delves into the organic unfolding of purpose and the importance of patience in teaching methodologies, all while planting seeds of knowledge that flourish over time.
As we explore the evolving landscape of education, we acknowledge how career paths have evolved how that impacts the college experience. We also look into the power of EOS, transformative power of digital tools in enhancing productivity and the importance of decoupling personal identity from professional alignment.
Wrap up the first season of Epochal Growth with us, and get ready for more transformative narratives in the upcoming season in 2025. Stay connected through LinkedIn and the ElevateCX Slack community, and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter for all the latest updates.
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
Welcome to the final episode of season one of Epochal Growth. I'm Sarah C and I'm so happy that you're here. I couldn't think of a better way to close out this incredible journey than with today's guest. Suneet Bhatt is a transformational leader. He's a coach and he's a mentor, and he led a workshop in Denver at the ElevateCX conference that was called Happy Proud, not Yet Satisfied, and he forced everybody that was in the room to reflect and to give themselves permission to answer hard questions that we usually avoid and then to spend time with those questions. I was really excited to meet him and introduce myself to him, and I was beyond excited when he agreed to be a guest on this podcast. Once he did agree, I knew he had to be the closer for the season.
Sarah Caminiti:In this episode, we reflect on the importance of vulnerability and personal growth, and we talk about stepping into new eras with intention, because when you do that, you are taking ownership of what's to come and you are allowing yourself the time and the space to reflect on where you've been and how that's gotten you to where you are. If you're ready to finish this season with actionable insights and fresh inspiration, this episode is for you. Enough of my rambling. I can't believe this is the last episode. Let's dive in.
Suneet Bhatt:Hi everybody. It's nice to meet you and, sarah, just from your smile, that's exactly how I picture you all the time with your energy. Thank you for having me on. I'm excited to have this conversation and see where we take it In terms of you know, by the ways of introduction, I think the way I'm someone who been through, as you talk about sort of epochs and eras right, I think you're catching me as I just emerged into what I think is, you know, finding purpose in the third era of, I think, what will be the four eras of my life, and the way I talk about myself, which I'm just sort of arriving at and so excited to share and just hear what you think and what the audience thinks, whether it makes sense.
Suneet Bhatt:Even so, I started talking about myself professionally is I help people in organizations get unstuck, find their purpose and reach their potential.
Suneet Bhatt:And for people, I focus on a framework I built that I teach at Rutgers, that I brought to professionals, which is a find and evolve your purpose framework.
Suneet Bhatt:And then, in terms of organizations, I work through a framework at an organization called EOS, where we help organizations again get unstuck, get in alignment and operate with discipline and accountability and really get everything they want from their company. So, professionally, that's kind of how I talk about myself. The reason I think of it as my third sort of era you've got me thinking in this mindset is because right now, my top priority and the most impactful thing I will do, regardless of what I do professionally, is set our kids up for success. And so you know, on the front end and on the back end of this era it is the definition of success is are my kids just happy? Do they just feel extraordinarily loved and do they feel like they're going to be okay, like no matter what happens? And so that's all the context. But I think, end point to end point, that's the most important thing I'll do right now. Is that helpful?
Sarah Caminiti:Is that helpful? My gosh, that was the most beautiful introduction I think I've ever seen Like I, having someone anticipate there to be four seasons that exist throughout your journey and kind of enter into this space, this life, knowing that these four things are going to happen. And I would love to know where you came up with this kind of this mindset.
Suneet Bhatt:Yeah, look, I think I kind of cheated, right. So I think what I thought of era is, I think, almost like geologically right. And so I think you operate in sort of you think, in terms of the four geologic eras, and I think that's where my anchor was. I usually tend to break things down into threes. This is the one time I went for four. I'm a big rule of three operator in general, but this time four felt right.
Suneet Bhatt:And then, as I looked at that and I was like you know what, actually, I think for me four makes a ton of sense, because I think the first is when we are kids like ourselves, and we are truly carefree, right.
Suneet Bhatt:I think the second, we're being cared for, right. I think the second is when we are independent and sort of on our own right, so we're adults without responsibility, and that is really about sort of experiments and geologically they actually talk about it as, like you know, oceans in space, like arriving and retreating, like they talk about it as this, like earthen experimentation, right. I think the third is where I'm at now, where I'm responsible for, right. And then I think the fourth is yet to be defined, but at the end of this journey, the fourth is where I'm really thinking about, probably legacy right, like what is, what is what is left of me? The thing you are the most is the thing you are after. It's what you are. The thing you are for longest is your memory and your legacy right, and so I think it's nice to be able to have that space, and I still got some time before I get there, but I that's kind of how it started, so it was geologic and then it just kind of made sense.
Sarah Caminiti:So I love that, I really do love that, and I think that also allows you the space in, just like mentally, to automatically acknowledge that this is now, this isn't before, this isn't later, this is, and not dwell on past mistakes, past choices. They have brought you to this new era and what you take with it is up to you, um, but they don't define you and, and that's very important, yeah, I, I love that, um, I think, uh, I love that you shared um sort of that.
Suneet Bhatt:Uh, the way you talked about it makes a ton of sense, which is this journey, and there is before and there's after. There's no end, it's continuous, and we are a result, for better or for worse. We are a result, we're a product, right of what sort of got us here and we should honor that. And I think that's the most important thing is when you try and hide from it. It's funny.
Suneet Bhatt:Yesterday, the class that I taught in my framework at Rutgers is this concept of truths, which is I don't want you to talk to students about, for the whole classes. I don't want them to change who they are, I just want them to own it, I want them to acknowledge it and I want them to decide what they're going to acknowledge and accept, what they're going to adapt to, what they are going to let go. I just want them to spend some time in the truth. It's not limits, it's not limitations, it's not restrictions, it's not mistakes, it's just the truth. What's the truth and how are you going to accept it before you move forward? So I think that the way you just framed it kind of dovetails nicely with that.
Sarah Caminiti:What was the response when you were talking about the truths with your class?
Suneet Bhatt:Look they're. You know they're 17 to 21, 22. So I think some of this stuff goes over their heads and it's funny, two, three years after I'll have students come back to me and say, okay, I now get that thing that you're talking about. But that's important, I think I actually I actually struggled. I think when I first started teaching the class um, I struggled with um. Is it landing? Are they getting it today? And I actually now look at it, as I'm going to plant a bunch of seeds and they're going to grow at different rates and I feel no urgency or pressure for them to internalize it. What I want them to do is get it, hear it and if they come back to it down the line, they come back to it. So I just want them to have the source material. So some students got it. Some students' eyes glazed over. They enjoyed parts of it. Some of it was maybe too heavy, but I think it's important for me to present the information and then they have it as a takeaway.
Sarah Caminiti:But I think that was the way it landed yesterday with to plant seeds in people that are so like they are at a stage of life where they don't know what's going to happen and you're telling them that a lot of the things that we don't talk about are actually things that are going to guide you and and that is a rare, a rare occurrence for that stage of life to have someone give a reality check in a way that is advantageous to the listener when they are ready to listen. Yeah, Because it's hard. I think that anything about purpose is overwhelming.
Suneet Bhatt:It shouldn't be. I think I'm part of the chat. Yeah, I think you've hit it Right. It is, and part of that is we have made it this mythical, like heavy aspirational. It's on a pedestal, it is potentially unattainable, but you feel the pressure of it all the time. I think we have just gotten purpose wrong and, as a result of that, we have made it much harder for people to even attempt it, let alone, you know, understand their, let alone understand their journey towards it. So I love that.
Suneet Bhatt:And something you just said which blew my head, which my head exploded with, is look, I spent some time in communication theory, right, so we have done different areas of customer engagement. We always talk about different types of communication theory. The one communication model I've never heard before which I think we just scratched the surface on here you always talk about, like Berlow, sender, message channel, receiver, right, we assume that those are dominoes and continuous, those are dominoes and continuous. What's interesting is there is a communication model where you do your job to create, present and make the information available and then, at some point, when the time is right, the person receives it, they opt in, they find it, they receive it, and nobody ever dude.
Suneet Bhatt:I got to look this up. Nobody ever talks about that what happens between channel and receiver as being a time lapse and a discovery exercise, which I think our current state of knowledge, dissemination and availability makes possible, which wasn't possible 40 years ago, 50 years ago when communication theory was being developed. So that is really interesting. I got to process that. So that was neat. That was a neat share, it was a good moment.
Sarah Caminiti:Cool. Well, I'm glad because I think that that is something that I'm learning through this incredible journey that I've been on these past handful of months of when I have given myself space to reflect or celebrate or acknowledge things that are powerful about myself, allows me to acknowledge things that happened before that I wasn't able to fully understand or see or anticipate the impact for, and now I can appreciate it. And I think the easiest example is I've forever the alpaca has been like my spirit animal and it's. It all started when I was like 19 or 20 years old.
Sarah Caminiti:I was working at Victoria's Secret and we were trying to get everybody to sign up for these credit cards. Like that was like your main purpose in life was to get people to sign up for the Victoria's Secret credit card. I was always very good at it because I could connect with people very quickly and through that I noticed that everybody around me started to get kind of like discouraged or the momentum dropped or just like they totally forgot about it. They were overwhelmed. So I created this whole like like reward system of we get to make a post-it and we add it to a post-it. And I realized I cannot draw at all and I tried to draw something and it ended up just looking like a sad derpy alpaca.
Suneet Bhatt:And I don't even know what it was.
Sarah Caminiti:It was supposed to be. I think it may have been a horse, but it just went downhill fast. But that started this whole thing with alpacas just kind of being what people would gift me with and everything like that.
Suneet Bhatt:And.
Sarah Caminiti:I only recently I realized the reason why I have attached myself so much to this alpaca and didn't know it was. It was the first time that I really trusted myself and tried something as a leader to build something that drawing and that post-it board Building this whole post-it board.
Suneet Bhatt:Our numbers blew up.
Sarah Caminiti:That's awesome.
Sarah Caminiti:We were the top credit card people in the New England area. After this strange credit card post-it, we would have themes. Every week we would change themes. It would be circus themes, and then you draw the post-it to go with the circus and whatever, Like I owned, being inventive and and and empowering people to celebrate in dorky little ways. And I was 19 years old and uh, and now the alpaca is truly like my little, my little trophy of it, that now I did that and I never. I never made that correlation before and and I think that it just took time to be able to acknowledge that I was doing great things before I even knew I was doing great things.
Suneet Bhatt:Before you knew it and acknowledge it. Ah, I love that. Uh, so what tell what? Is there any identity? Have you looked up the alpaca to understand more about the creature, the habits? Is there anything else about the alpaca?
Sarah Caminiti:So I did go through a deep exploration of alpaca many years ago. I'd imagine I'm a researcher, if you haven't realized that yet.
Suneet Bhatt:Yeah, fact finder.
Sarah Caminiti:They greet you with Eskimo kisses, and that's how they greet all of their friends. And they even greet people with Eskimo kisses, and that's how they greet all of their friends.
Suneet Bhatt:Uh, and like they even greet people with Eskimo kisses.
Sarah Caminiti:Um, and like, if you go to an alpaca farm and they don't spit, like a llama spits? Um, they're. They are very mild mannered but they're very playful and inclusive. And um, they're just these lovely, like happy creatures and I know, I know I would, that's so wild. An eskimo kiss, and who knew my sad horse would actually bring me to the truth that is the ultimate reframe.
Suneet Bhatt:Like I love that refrframe a sad horse to a blissfully happy alpaca. That's great, that's awesome.
Sarah Caminiti:I love it with it and appreciate it. It will show itself and uh, and make you realize that this isn't new, that you, it's just you and own it and celebrate it and build on it. But what you're doing with these kids is that you're showing them what's possible.
Suneet Bhatt:Yeah, I love that. I have not thought too hard about it. Yesterday was yesterday, was a great class and it was fun to like. It's one of the harder. It's one of the harder classes because, as a concept, it's just hard to think about truth and the things that we face and how do we overcome these obstacles? Sometimes the only way to overcome it is to just accept it and then say this is now a condition I deal with, but I haven't thought about this.
Suneet Bhatt:Plant the seed, when will it? When will it actually germinate and when will it be impactful? And what's interesting is like, as parents, that's kind of what we do, right, we are planting seeds all the time and you hope it shows up when your child needs it most, right? Um, I didn't. I never thought about it as a like a model and I never thought about it. Also as it applies to students. I think sometimes when we're teaching, we are so urgent in wanting the feedback of the click that sometimes we may put too much pressure on the student to learn. And there's something there, as opposed to just deliver and you know, let it. Let it take hold when it can. I love that. That's great.
Sarah Caminiti:Well, I think that that's. That's really cool, though, that you're allowing yourself to think about it that way, because the education system is so driven by results immediate results, and people learn. People learn heavy things differently.
Suneet Bhatt:They do. Look, it helps that I'm teaching, you know, a class on on purpose versus a cat class, right? Where there's a, where it is not just a discipline but a prerequisite, right? So I think there's, there's that. But what, to your point, if I don't, if I'm not honest about the space I have, then I won't take advantage of it, and I think we have had that luxury and I don't know if I've fully embraced it, like I'm going to talk to my students about this like next week, right?
Sarah Caminiti:I will, I will.
Suneet Bhatt:I will.
Sarah Caminiti:That's great. How did this happen? How did this realization that purpose needed to be reframed and there was a way to reframe it, and there was a way to connect with people on such an intimate and vulnerable level. How did that happen in your journey?
Suneet Bhatt:and vulnerable level. How did that happen in your journey? Yeah, it's a bit. A little bit circuitous and I've not found a way to tell the story efficiently, so I'm going to stumble through it, but I'll go for it, I think so. The first thing I tell is a story.
Suneet Bhatt:When I first started working I was in this program at Prudential and somehow I got this access through my manager. At the time I had quite a number of interactions with the CEO of Prudential. So Art Ryan was taking the company public and somehow I had fallen in his good graces and he came and spoke to our group and he did this great story. And he came and spoke to our group and he did this great story and he talked about employees and he said look, it's 1998, right, I'm an old man. He's like look, the world has changed. He's like people don't work at a company forever anymore. There is now a contract between the employer and the employee, right? And he's like the employer says this is the work I need done, and the employee says this is the work I want to do. And if those two overlap, the employer says if you do this in good faith, these will be your rewards and I will set you up for this. Next thing you do will be a stop, a pit stop, on your career journey, right? And the employee says, great, I will opt in, I will operate with integrity, and you have that. I was like that's really powerful. Let's acknowledge this isn't a lifetime contract anymore. These are short-term social contracts and that just gestated for a while and as I became a manager, the thing that really started clicking for me was the best way to build a team is to have people opt in to the work. If they opt in to the work, then your job as a manager is so much easier. So companies spend tons of time writing the job descriptions and creating the roles, the functions and the roles, roles and what the accountability is for that role right, they do a ton of time on that and then they put a job description out. They do some interviews and individuals interview for those roles. But the way they look at them is they tend to look at the bullet points, right? They tend to say, oh, is this, is this? You know how much time do I get remote? What's the compensation? So they opt in based on the transactions, but nobody has helped the employees. Nobody's done a good job helping people say who are you and what's your decision-making framework for what you want to opt into.
Suneet Bhatt:So that always hit me and so I would always spend a ton of time with people trying to figure out what they wanted to do, and I would do this at the end of every year so they could then opt in. And my biggest, like the largest number of departures for my team were always January Cause I would drop this bomb on these people in December and I'd say go think about it. And they'd come back and a lot of people would be like I gotta go do something else. And I was like great, let's go figure that out. I had to go do something else. I was like great, let's go figure that out.
Suneet Bhatt:Then, as I started building bigger teams, my last company we built was 1,200 people. 1,100 of them reported to me around the world Never met them during COVID. I had to systematize this way of opting people in because I had to do that at scale. And as I did that, people were like you know what, Suneet, you should coach. This is a great framework you should coach.
Suneet Bhatt:I started doing executive coaching and then at some point the oldest person I worked with was 67, right, and at 67, after exiting two companies, raising an amazing family, had a heart issue. Raising an amazing family had a heart issue. And he was like Suneet, I don't know why I'm doing what I'm doing Like you're 67, dude, You're like the embodiment of success, personally, professionally, everything. And at that moment I was like, all right, we got to work with you and then I was like how much happiness, joy, productivity. We got to work with you and then I was like how much happiness, joy, productivity, how much like human goodwill are we wasting by not equipping people with this stuff until they raise their hand at a midlife crisis?
Suneet Bhatt:So I wrote a one pager, literally a one pager. I pitched it to Duke and I pitched it to Rutgers. Duke invites me to come do workshops every once in a while, but I met a director, ryan Greenbaum, at Rutgers and he, over one beer. He was like you read the one pager. He's like you got a class. I was like I've never taught before. He's like you'll figure it out. He's like we need to do this, we need to try this if it doesn't work. It doesn't work. He's like I'll support you, but he's like we need to do this, we need to try this. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. He's like I'll support you, but he's like we need to try this, and that was, you know, three and a half, four years ago, and you know we talked about it at the event.
Suneet Bhatt:The thing that is life-changing for me is Rutgers released their five-year strategic plan and their first goal and first bullet point is helping students find their purpose, and I think that's really important, because now the university is getting it, which is education is under attack. We're not equipping students for the new world and for success, and part of that is we've got to help them understand themselves better first before we fill them with all this objective external information. The receptacle has to be well-defined and ready to receive, and so I saw him figure out a way, short way, to tell that story, but that's like the journey. That's like the journey to how this has become the thing I want to do for the rest of my life how this has become the thing.
Sarah Caminiti:I want to do for the rest of my life. Man you have I just talk about the universe like telling you that you are doing the right thing by sending it out this, just a one pager. And not only did both places buy in like they cause, even though you're just teaching at Rutgers, you're still working on stuff over at Duke. But Rutgers acknowledged that the education system, especially colleges, right now it's not like what it was like 50 years ago, where you would get a degree in this one thing and then you would spend your life with this one thing that tied perfectly to what your degree was in.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, because now nothing like I don't even have a college degree, I didn't finish college, and it is one of those things that for a long time there was a lot of shame that I felt about it, and then it was like, but wait a second, I'm able. I defined my own path, I figured out what I was good at, I was able to think outside the box for it, I was able to just trust myself in in this specific area when I didn't trust myself in so many other areas, and and build something that I'm proud of. And if schools acknowledge that people evolve and that purpose does change. Core values change as you start to identify more things about yourself and explore new things Like think about how school could be Like. This could be the start of a shift in how colleges approach helping people transition safely into adulthood.
Suneet Bhatt:You've hit it. I think. What is the role right? When you think about what is your purpose, college? What is your purpose right? And your purpose is not to just fill people and push them through with a degree. The expectation has to be higher. Are you equipping them with a degree or are you preparing them for life? And what's next? And those are two very different things. And I think for a while, college looked at their role and their job as getting people to a degree right. And when you change the standard, it's not about the degree. Sure, that's a certification of the value you've delivered, but that expectation has to be what are we preparing you for?
Suneet Bhatt:And I think I love the fact, I love your story and I can imagine dude like you and I are probably about the same vintage and I remember when. I remember when college degree was on the on the job description, and I remember the trend to remove it right, which isn't. That hasn't been that long, it's 10, 11 years is the first time I remember having the conversation of like, no, I don't care about the college degree, I care about the experience. But that's pretty recent, right, and so that makes your journey even more magnificent, I think, which is awesome, like blazing your own trail. That's great. That's great.
Sarah Caminiti:I think that the purpose, though one of the reasons why I struggled so much in college was I didn't know if I made the right decision with my major.
Sarah Caminiti:There was so much pressure to pick I mean, there's a there's a multitude of reasons why, why college and I just ended up being a giant anxiety attack but but there was so much pressure in knowing what you were going to do and the amount of money that's put into you are investing in your purpose, and I knew there were things that I loved. I knew that there were things that I had never heard of that I'm sure I would love, and I had no idea how to be intentional with every single second that I was there. And it was so overwhelming because you're just, I was constantly feeling doubtful, and that, I think, is an opportunity, with what you're doing in Rutgers, to kind of flip things on its head for a second and say you don't have to know what you're going to do for the rest of your life. Like you shouldn't, like you should 100% not know what you want to do for the rest of your life. Like, please, um, because that's just a lot to put on a child.
Suneet Bhatt:Oh yeah, I think, look, uh, I think there we reframe. One of the things we talk about is there are a lot of you know there's there's more than one for, and there's, you know, forever, there's for the rest of your life. And then there's sometimes just for now, like just, and I think there are plenty of students to come in and they know exactly what they want to do and I say great, like we can serve. The way we're going to serve you is we're going to help you understand who you are better. So, in pursuit of that thing that you want so badly, we're going to help you do it in a more healthy and sustainable way. So that's like one cohort of people we serve.
Suneet Bhatt:The other cohort of people we serve are a bunch of people who are like well, there's another group that's like I don't know what I want to do. You help them unearth themselves and they're like oh wow, I'm actually been doing the thing I want to do the whole darn time. Right, it's like your alpaca story, Like this is what I'm really good at. They just didn't take credit for it yet. So we're gonna help you take credit. And then the other people who are like, hey, don't worry about forever. Let's just talk about for now, Like, what's the thing, what's the next thing you want to try? And how do you inform that? And positive, like from a place of positivity, how do you inform that in a really energizing way? So you actually want to run that experiment and I think that's, that's great. So there are some students where it's like, yeah, you know what you want to do. I think you're right. For the rest of them and for all of them, you still want the ability to say, great, like, do that thing, Even if you change your mind, it's going to be okay, You're going to be okay, You're just going to be okay.
Suneet Bhatt:And I think that that rigor I mean these students this is the most anxious generation. Right, it is the on one side. They've got all this anxiety, but what people don't give this generation credit for is they're so anxious because they're so smart. They're the smartest generation, they're the most self-aware, they're the most inclusive. Right, there are all these beautiful things, but we haven't taught them how to channel that into a healthy way of making progress and so they just feel all the anxiety we felt. But, like 10 X, right, they're going through a lot. I love man, they are amazing. They're going through a lot. We got to help.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, we do, we really do.
Sarah Caminiti:You said something earlier that really resonated with how much more accessible knowledge is to us now, and I think that that is something that is really important to acknowledge the opportunity to embrace it thoughtfully.
Sarah Caminiti:Acknowledge the opportunity to embrace it thoughtfully and not in a. Not in a. Now we can Google anything and everything, but now, in something that you would have taken like a year researching to make sure that you covered all of your bases, you can now research that same exact thing in 30 seconds and you can have chat, gpt, compile all of the stuff that you've done and you can digest it in a way that works for you, because you've trained it in order to deliver information in a way that's digestible to you. And what a weight lifted off of the individual's shoulders to know like you didn't forget something you didn't miss, like the one golden nugget that was going to change everything, like the opportunity for second guessing your research, your gut feelings, your just your questions. That can be diminished if we capitalize on the tools that we have in a way that is helpful and encouraging.
Suneet Bhatt:And healthy, yeah, I mean. So I encourage my students to use Gen AI. I think it is. You know, I do, I will do, will do the audit right. If they've fully outsourced it and it comes back 100 percent ai generated, then we have a problem, yes, but if it comes back even like a third right, uh, if there's some like adaptation, I want to understand where it is, but depending on it, I'm like that's great, that's the way this work should be done. You know, we were in.
Suneet Bhatt:I was at a conference this past week in New York City and the topic there's quite a bit of discussion around Gen AI and one of there's a gentleman at our table who has never used it, which I found fascinating, very accomplished, very successful. Yeah, there were six of us, and these are all pretty, everyone's pretty accomplished professionals. There was one that hadn't used it, which I found fascinating, very accomplished, very successful. Yeah, there were six of us, and these are all pretty, you know, everyone's pretty accomplished professionals. There was one that hadn't used it at all and so we ended up spending the 30-minute breakout just giving him. You know, everyone had different ideas and suggestions on how they use it right, how do they use it to, you know, to maintain momentum and to augment and complement who they are.
Suneet Bhatt:Some people are like I use it to originate. Some people use it to review. I use it to synthesize, I use it to edit. I use it because my tone is harsh, so I use it to soften my tone and make me more likable.
Suneet Bhatt:Uh, like, people are using it for all of these different reasons and um, and the thing we, the thing we came away with there are a few which is one um, it's going to make, it's, it's not going to eliminate jobs, in that, in that regard, what it's going. But what is going to happen is it's going to eliminate the people who don't use it as a part of their job. So, whether you're a doctor, whether you're customer success, whatever you are, if you haven't integrated it into your life to increase your productivity and capability, then it's going to be problematic. So, to go back to your point, the conversation we should be having is how do we use this, how do we use these tools and how do we integrate them to make us just increase our productivity, right, and increase our capability and increase our value and impact, right? So these conversations are happening all the time. That was the first like really accomplished individual I'd come across who was also like nope, I haven't touched it yet. It's like wow, that's fascinating.
Sarah Caminiti:Man, I wonder what will happen, like what will be the reason why they change their tune, like what will happen where they have to try it and what their feelings are after.
Suneet Bhatt:Yeah, I, you know some of the advice we gave, uh, one of them was uh, this content is coming your way and if you don't engage with it, you're not going to be able to know what's real and what's fake. And so if you don't immerse yourself in the experience, then you're not going to be able to tell, you're just going to be victim, right? You're going to be easily exploited and manipulated, and so part of it is I just as table stakes. I just need to be familiar with what it does so that I can not be caught off guard or surprised, and I think that seemed to, that seemed to click a little bit. Like you know, if, if the upside isn't going to work, and some of the fear, some of the fear mongering might, might help you get started. It's not sustainable, but maybe it gets you started, right?
Sarah Caminiti:Dip your toes in it out of complete terror. Yeah, exactly, and the waters were safe after all, so you're totally fine. Now, as you've been going through this transformative purpose that you are defining for yourself, which is something that I'm sure is very different than what you imagined for yourself, which is something that I'm sure is very different than what you imagined for yourself, how have you, as a person, just kind of sat in it all and thought about it?
Suneet Bhatt:Look, I think the only reason I've had the ability to make this shift is because my wife is amazing, and so you know, I think she has created the grandest space for me, uh, in her ability to say, hey, you've done a lot. Like, you've done well, you've taken care of us, you've done well. Like this is the look at your face when you come back from class, like we'll take you this way, like go do this thing, and then it's meaningful impact. So I think literally all of this is possible because of my wife, and then I think within that context, she's created even the financial space to be like all right, you're probably not going to make a lot of money like for a while, so don't make a lot of money. Right, I've been lucky Professionally. I think I've had some success. I've had a couple exits in my own capacity from past companies that will continue to buoy us, at least my contribution for a little bit. So that has helped. I feel really blessed and lucky that some of that stuff is bearing fruit at the right time, and I think it's only very recently that I've it started to click and connect.
Suneet Bhatt:I would say the one thing I did well that I will take credit for is I gave myself and you've heard me use this term, but I gave myself space and grace, like when I went on this journey. I just said year one, just run experiments. So I consulted, I took another SaaS job, I did all these things and I very quickly made faster decisions about what wasn't working and what is so that was the first thing I hit. That, and this year I said, is about product market fit. So when I got to the end of this year, I wanted product market fit and market message fit. So I gave myself a full year and it was great that coming into september, I think I've got this really pithy sentence that really encompasses everything that I want to do going forward. And now I've got the tools right, like my own framework and this EOS Entrepreneurial Operating System framework, which I know you're familiar with and have read the book and have done some amazing things personally with it. So I think I had an incredible sponsor and partner who gave me air cover. Partner, uh, who gave me air cover.
Suneet Bhatt:Um, I gave myself space, but honestly um, you know, not cartoonishly so I was aware of, like, some of the basic truths financial et cetera that I need to be successful. I gave myself milestones that were manageable and really worked against it, um, and it's worked out. It's it's worked out pretty well. I think I really played to my strengths and I feel sick. It took me probably 18 months to like feel good, right, so I was doing the work and the work was great, but the space between was not, and it's really only this summer that I like feel like really good about this stuff and I'll have moments and I'll talk about it and I feel like I found the thing I just talk about forever, um, with some credibility and with some passion, um, and that's like a good feeling. Hopefully that answers the question what did I do to sit in it and how did I create the space?
Suneet Bhatt:But yeah hopefully that's, helpful.
Sarah Caminiti:No, I think that that's really helpful and I think that that was a very honest approach to answering the question, because it's very easy to answer questions like this by being you know, telling the really the good things you know not I won't say sugarcoating it, but cherry picking the bits that you want to share I mean Instagram, curate your version of the story and and going on a path like this one that is an emotionally driven journey.
Sarah Caminiti:For those that are open to going on this journey with you, I think that is a super vulnerable thing for you, as the person that is the administrator of these tools, to have to put yourself in over and over again, because you're not only needing to sell it, to get them on board and to buy into it, or and over again, because you're not only needing to sell it, to get them on board and to buy into it or to opt into it. You're also needing them to totally let themselves go Be, something that is usually unsafe in new situations, and you have to disarm them, and that means that you have to be a very disarming person, and that takes a lot of energy.
Suneet Bhatt:It does. One thing I'll tell you, I think, if I double down on that discussion and you said the words, you have to sell it. I think, look, I have run sales and revenue. I've carried numbers over hundreds of millions of dollars from a revenue perspective for businesses. So I have done a lot of sales but I've never been the product and I think that's really hard than the product and I think that is really that's really hard, um, cause when people say no, they're not saying no to the thing you say sell, they're saying no to you and that's like that's hard, right, and the flip I've made in the last few months, uh, and I always I talk about this in a lot of capacities, so the word space is really important for me.
Suneet Bhatt:I talk about space and grace, um, but I also talk about don't chase, like, make space. And that applies to love, like when I talk to family is my. Don't chase love like, just make space for it and it will find you. Don't chase your dreams like make space for them and they will, they will find you, like it's all about don't chase space. But I think the thing that I've really started to do from a work perspective is stop chasing, like if I have to convince you and it's so funny because I would do this for, like, a sass product or a services product if I have to convince you to buy me and I have to convince you to stay and I don't want that pressure.
Suneet Bhatt:So now I'm just trying to create this opt-in environment and the moment I hit friction in that conversation I'm just like, hey, this isn't a good fit. If I can be helpful, let me know. I've got a client right now who is probably one of my three or four largest clients and I've got a great connection in some capacities. But I'm starting to feel a lot of friction, like in other areas, and I've been struggling with this for the last few days and I think in my head I'm like you know, I can't.
Suneet Bhatt:I can't spend my time trying to convince people that this may be right for them, like they need to make that choice, and so that has been really helpful is a little bit less on the selling, but even taking the opt-in stuff we talked about at the beginning and just making my process about opt-in In my class you sign a contract like you opt-in to being on time, showing up et cetera, like I just want everybody to opt-in. And if you don't like no pressure like I love you, go do you. But if you're not going to opt and if you don't like no pressure like I love you, go do you.
Sarah Caminiti:But if you're not going to opt in, then it's probably not going to work. Wow, wow, I I really appreciate that and I love that you do that with the class too, because one of the things that I've learned uh, hard lessons that I've learned is you have to get people to confirm they understand the expectations, and if you don't, then you don't have a really a leg to stand on if things don't go the way that you had hoped because you didn't take the time to check in and say hey, I just want to make sure you do understand. I need you to be in class on these days, I need you to do this, I need you to do that, and it's such a simple thing. But because it's so simple, I think it is a very easy thing for people to leave off of their schedule.
Suneet Bhatt:Yeah, it's an easy skip yeah, it's such an easy skip. And like, I've got midterms to grade now and I'm going to go back to this too. I know who's in, I know who's not. And I'm going to be like I'm just going to highlight the social contract at the beginning and be like hey, you remember this thing. You haven't honored it, so that's reflected in your grade. Like that's, you've set the standard.
Suneet Bhatt:And what's interesting, I think, is like, um, that, uh, if you weren't clear on the front end, um, like, then you're gonna, you're, you're scrambling, it's unclear and what I've found you know as like from a experience in a tip standpoint right, which is, um, if you haven't taken the time to like set that standard and expectation, when your expectation isn't met, like the best way to handle it is own it and say sorry. So, like, if you're in that context, just be like this is 100% my fault. It's not clear. You eliminate the he said, she said, of the past, you eliminate the back and forth and you just take 100% credit and blame. This is 100% my fault.
Suneet Bhatt:Going forward, this is like let's set the standard Are you in, are we out? And that gets everybody back on the same page without having to you just like just wipe away the past and use that to set a new standard. And it works like in every relationship, it works in every capacity. And it works like in every relationship. It works in every capacity. And it just eliminates so much, like just so much anxiety and back and forth, right?
Sarah Caminiti:I love that you acknowledge that, because I couldn't agree more. It is the. It is the biggest waste of time to try to like just relitigate the past.
Sarah Caminiti:Yes, it's like, it's done. I'm I've like, once I've like shared something or or got off of my chest. If I'm frustrated about something or what have you, usually I'm good, like like, I'm done, like okay, now do we need to come up with a plan so that we don't go down this path in the future? Or let's just give each other a high five and continue on our journey. I'm not holding anything against you. Let's just give each other a high five and continue on our journey. I'm not holding anything against you. I said my piece we're good, we're good. Yeah, it's like the EOS stuff, though I've got to, I've. We don't obviously have a ton of time.
Sarah Caminiti:That help you kind of let go of the stress and pressure that happens when you are selling yourself.
Suneet Bhatt:Yeah, yeah. So I'd say a few things, I think One I watched EOS a few times and how immensely successful and powerful it was. That's the first thing. The way I talk about it is when someone handed me a copy of Traction, the book that Gina Wickman wrote about, that codifies EOS. The way I talk about it is I say it's like someone gave me the lyrics to a song I've been singing my whole life, but singing incorrectly. Right, like I was singing the wrong words too. So like it's not. You know, hold me closer, tony Danza Right, like that's not what it is. So it's like that. It just made everything just snapped into place and became crystal clear. So the first thing was it felt so normal and natural and authentic. Second, I saw it work so powerfully. And third, look, the personal work I do is so deep. It's therapy, right, like people were reaching out to me after the Elevate conference and they were like that was actually just Suneet, you just ran a therapy session for 120 people, right, and that is powerful. It's an emotional weight I carry because every one of those conversations is deeply meaningful to me and I want to honor it.
Suneet Bhatt:Eos allows me to scale in a trusted framework, fill my days and create space between that deep personal by actually being really an objective facilitator, and I love that. The two, the values, are the same Look, get unstuck, find your purpose, reach your potential. That's for human beings and that's for organizations, and that's what EOS does for organizations. It fits, it just fits. But I think the thing you said is like it does. It helps me, it helps me scale, it takes the pressure off me. I can externalize a little bit and say that's the process. Even like when you rate an EOS meeting, you don't rate the facilitator. You're like how did we do as a team? And so it created some healthy space for me, which I think was also really important. That's why I just I thought I mean, I've just fallen in love with it.
Sarah Caminiti:I had a very similar reaction when I read Traction. Um, it just it was. I'm a very efficient person. I like to be very intentional and purposeful, um, and clear, sometimes obnoxiously clear and that is that is the EOS framework. I loved that right seat, right person because it took the pressure and we spoke about this in Elevate but it takes the pressure off of you.
Sarah Caminiti:Did something wrong to. This is what is needed right now, this is what you need right now, and there isn't an overlap like there used to be, and that's not a bad thing. That says nothing, that there's nothing negative about that. That's actually something that we can celebrate. See if there's another seat, but otherwise, let me help you find your seat and let me guide you to your seat. Let me help you find your seat and let me guide you to your seat. And I think that that, in the culture that we have I mean the United States is like an at will place anyway, of there's so much guilt and weight to carry, and there's nothing wrong with a job no longer being what you need to to be successful, for you, to utilize your skills effectively and to be able to acknowledge it. That's it.
Suneet Bhatt:Dude, you hit it and I know when we talked I was like I mean, you get EOS like from the inside out, like you feel it. You've even adapted some of it for your own person. The way you've worked with Eos is really is beautiful and powerful, um, and I think, uh, they would be honored by the way you've like, by the way you've brought it to life for you. Um, so right people, right seats. I love.
Suneet Bhatt:I think the way you talk about it is great, is it? It is so everything about eos is about the long-term greater good of the organization and so as soon as you put your head down and start bickering, everybody's got to look up and be like is this for the long-term greater good of the organization? So everybody gets the same North Star right, which is objective, which is why your number one rule of business is stay in business right. So I think that is really powerful. And then, as a result of that, what you actually do is you say we don't start with people first, we start with structure and function and responsibility first and then we find the way to map people to the seats.
Suneet Bhatt:It works with what I do, because in the US I was explaining this to my teaching assistant, is from Nepal, and so we were talking about health care and I was like, look, what the US did years and years ago was they tied health care to work. There was a long time where, if you didn't have a job, you couldn't get health care, and so they really made it. They made your personal health and wellness interconnected with your job, and I think now what we're trying to do is write people, write seats. We're decoupling your identity from the seat that you occupy, and now we've got to give these people something to fill that. Who like who are you is not your job.
Suneet Bhatt:Who are you is not founder, my authentic story, professional EOS implementer. That's not who I am right, that's what I do. It's not even why I do. It's what I do right, but it's not who I am, and so I think we're starting to see the need to decouple those a little bit. Eos facilitates. You know a lot of this work is coming at us, but we've got to really help people figure out who they are objectively.
Sarah Caminiti:Objectively. I think that's the biggest thing. Objectively and that's what I think that there's a lot of opportunity with AI to do things like that. Objectively Also, I think that it is going to be exciting to see hopefully it happens the evolution of this kind of change in mindset, where we're actually looking for alignment. It is alignment and your alignment will evolve. And when you work in a startup, especially, or a small tech company, your alignment will evolve because the company is evolving and you have to be strong enough and empowered enough to articulate your value, your purpose, you, who you you are and how that connects to what's going on in the company, and say, safely, I no longer have alignment, and then the conversation will be well, let's help you find alignment.
Suneet Bhatt:Yeah, where do you want to go? You hit look, you hit the articulation point really powerfully, like, if you think about it, uh, the best story you've ever told and the best story you've ever heard was not memorized, it was just known and felt really deeply and that was what brought it to life. And so, in order to get people to articulate that story and understand that alignment, we have to help them know themselves better than they have before and better than anyone else ever will. And if we can help every person we help, do that, we'll find that alignment so much more authentically and easier.
Sarah Caminiti:So, yeah, well, that was a powerful, a powerful culmination right there. We are so close to time and it's killing me right now, but you already told us your era in the very beginning, and so you're way ahead of the game, but you ended on such a beautiful note right there that I think that's better than an era, and I am so freaking happy you are going to be the closer of the first season of Epochal Growth.
Sarah Caminiti:And I think that you are the best person for it, so thank you so much for gifting me with your time.
Suneet Bhatt:Thank you so much. I'm so happy we met and your energy is outstanding and I am rooting for you and I can't wait. I can't wait to talk and do more together.
Sarah Caminiti:Me too. Me too, I think that, uh, I think we're gonna. We've got a lot in common, so I'm excited to see where it goes, and I'm just so excited for you and for everything you're doing, because I think it's really important and you're starting conversations that people were too Nervous to have, and so thank you for that.
Suneet Bhatt:Of course, thank you, bud Take care.
Sarah Caminiti:See you later. See you later, Bye, Bye-bye. And that is a wrap on season one of Epochal Growth. I couldn't have asked for a better closing conversation with Suneet. We have explored leadership and purpose and personal evolution throughout this season, and that wasn't even the purpose of this podcast to begin with, which is what the coolest piece of this journey has been Having these incredible leaders give me with their time. We have just had really cool conversations about the things that they've learned and the things that we can learn from them, and how we can approach life and leadership differently and what we're capable of. This episode ties all of this together with key lessons about vulnerability and alignment and growth.
Sarah Caminiti:I want to thank all of you for tuning in and joining me on this wild bonkers ride. Be sure to catch up on any episodes you may have missed and stay connected as we prepare for season two with even more transformative conversations. Find me on LinkedIn. If you're a part of the ElevateCX Slack community, always say hello. Don't be a stranger. Season two is going to have a lot of really exciting changes and I can't wait to share it all with you. Sign up for the newsletter. Just stick around. It's going to be worth it, I promise. But until then, keep reflecting, keep growing and remember nothing is forever and that's the beauty of it. I'm Sarah Caminiti. This is Epochal Growth. Have a great day.
