Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
Welcome to Epochal Growth, the podcast dedicated to transforming the way we lead by embodying the change we seek. Embracing the belief that we are the leaders we’ve been waiting for, our mission is to empower leaders to create impactful and lasting transformations in their organizations.
Hosted by industry expert Sarah Caminiti, each episode brings together visionary leaders and change-makers to explore the profound impact of inclusive and intentional leadership. Through engaging conversations and insightful discussions, we reveal how these approaches can revolutionize businesses and drive innovation.
At Epochal Growth, we are passionate about showcasing the transformative power of intentional actions and inclusive practices. Whether you are a seasoned entrepreneur, an aspiring leader, or someone passionate about business transformation, our podcast provides valuable insights and practical advice to help you lead differently and inspire growth.
Join us on this journey to unlock the potential for transformative business success. Tune in to Epochal Growth and start being the change you seek in leadership.
Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
What's Your Ripple? Leaving an Impact with Greg Collins
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Discover the transformative insights of Greg Collins, Vice President of Revenue at Boldr, as he shares his journey from SaaS to BPOs.
Learn how stepping outside conventional roles can lead to joy and growth in both personal and professional realms. Greg's conversation encourages us to focus on the intersection of talents and passions, offering guidance on creating a more fulfilling career path rather than merely chasing titles or companies.
Struggling with overcommitment and the pressure to please? Greg illuminates the importance of setting and communicating personal boundaries, introducing the concept of FOG—fear, obligation, and guilt—as a framework for decision-making. The episode underscores the power of radical candor in communication, emphasizing the need for caring enough to engage in conflict when necessary. Real-world anecdotes highlight how understanding one's needs and creating a supportive environment can lead to better leadership and healthier work-life balance.
Finally, we explore the significance of KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) in fostering meaningful team conversations, rather than just measuring success. Greg shares how setting a Big Hairy Audacious Goal (BHAG) can inspire a culture of curiosity and collaboration. We discuss the value of cultural fit and leadership transparency, offering strategies for evaluating these aspects during job searches. We close the conversation asking everyone to think about the ripple effect they make in their daily work and life. Those small ripples can change the world.
This episode provides reassurance on navigating career transitions and underscores the power of maintaining a supportive network amidst an ever-evolving job market.
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
Welcome back listeners. I'm Sarah Caminiti and I'm so happy that you're here. This is E Growth, the podcast where we dive deep into transformative stories of leadership and growth. As we near the end of this incredible season, I couldn't be more excited to bring you today's guest. Greg Collins is the Vice President of Revenue at Boldr and he brings a wealth of experience, from go-to-market strategies to client success, and today we're diving into how reflection, boundaries and curiosity can redefine success, both professionally and personally. You won't want to miss this conversation. It's packed with insights that will inspire you to think differently about your own journey. So let's get into it.
Greg Collins:Thanks, Sarah. Thanks for the introduction. I feel very special that you've invited me on, so thank you for that. Kindness Me, my background. I'm Greg. I'm this tall, my hair is this color, I have four awesome kiddos, I got a wife who's my best friend and partner. I feel blessed in just about every aspect of my life. I have been in software as a service for most of my career and about every piece of the revenue stream. You can think, whether that's on the net new acquisition side or the expansion or retention or support side. Most recently, about a little over a year ago, I transitioned to a pure services business and that was terrifying and it is so much fun and it's not nearly as different as you think. They're nuances, like most things in life. You can do it, just go do it, and I'm excited to be here and share with your community as you just continue to foster a playground of ideas and compassion and gratitude. So excited to lean in and see if I can be a part of that too.
Sarah Caminiti:Yes, Thank you so much, Greg, and that introduction just like gave me like a bajillion things that I want to talk to you about, but so I won't just attack you with questions right now, but it'll be a slow crawl, I promise.
Greg Collins:I was told there'd be no violence and I'm hoping there's no math.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, definitely none of that.
Sarah Caminiti:None of that will be here, mostly because my brain and math just I would quit instantly and I don't want to put anyone through that.
Sarah Caminiti:But I want to start this conversation first by acknowledging the gift that you have given me. Over these handful of interactions that we've had Since I first met Greg listeners I have given myself space to reflect in ways that I did not anticipate and in ways that I didn't even know I was missing. And, Greg, you opened this door and I bombarded you with incredibly long emails and replies to every little quick email that you sent me, because it always caught me off guard how much I appreciated these reflective moments that your messages would give me, and, whether it was a quote or whether it was a kind word, reflection is so important to our growth and it's so important to allow us to celebrate ourselves and see how far we've come and why we've landed where we are, and the little things that may have been crappy in the moment, what it's done to us later on. And so, first of all, I just want to say thank you very much for that gift.
Greg Collins:Well, thank you, I appreciate that.
Sarah Caminiti:And thank you also for replying to the emails after I probably overwhelm you greatly. But the question.
Greg Collins:Not overwhelming. It's easy to engage with someone who is thoughtful and curious and vulnerable. If we could all do that in our engagements, imagine what we could accomplish together.
Sarah Caminiti:Man, yes, that is so true. It is because, if you let yourself be vulnerable, really cool things happen. You get to see that there's other people that are around you that are sharing similar journeys and are experiencing things and they all kind of want to support each other, which we see very often within this ethical growth space, which has been really cool. But, Greg, my question for you here is in your I'll put a time period on it to not make it too broad, but like in the last like couple of years, what sort of impact has reflection had on where you found yourself in your career, especially since you went into a totally new space that ended up not really being a crazy new space in the end?
Greg Collins:Thank you for that question. Um, I think reflection for me through some both personal and professional tragedy, as well as success, has helped me step out of the confines of different titles or companies or expectations and focus on the intersection of what brings me joy and what talents I have. Wow, yeah, there's there's, self-admittedly, an advantage of having the experience I have. That gives me, um, a little bit more flexibility versus when you're, you know, in your first job, where you've been there a year or two and you're frustrated and you want to move. So self-awareness has really, really grown and from that I've started to look at having boundaries as a strength and not as a limiting selfishness or meanness towards others. So I think having some boundaries and having some better understanding of where I can help others and what brings me joy has probably propelled my happiness but also my success versus I look at some of the failures and I was not chasing generally the service of others.
Greg Collins:I want that title at that company because it will unlock that uh uh thing and it it. Just I knew it wouldn't work like that and I pushed ahead anyways. Um, and it was. It was a painful lesson to learn, especially when you already knew it, but you're like, I knew it anyway. Um. So I think reflection um has given me the permission to accept the things I did wrong, except, uh, the boundaries that I want to create for my own health, and then just really kind of lean in and focus on what are the skills, what are the joys versus, what are the titles or what are the companies or what are the functions.
Sarah Caminiti:What a great takeaway from that. It is so true I mean, we've seen this with so many different people that have gifted me their time on this show where once they've kind of allowed themselves to pause and think, okay, what was it about this space that didn't feel right? Or what was it about this space that really did feel right, and how can I lean into that more, how can I celebrate that more? The opportunities that started coming in because they were being genuine to themselves and they were being true to themselves and just kind of giving themselves the space to try things that they may not have allowed themselves to think were possible before, just continues to pay itself off, like over and over again and just enforce the fact that you have to. You have to give yourself that space to to be who you want to be in a way that's respectful and thinking of others that you get to achieve really cool but often different than expected successes.
Greg Collins:Yeah, it's almost like when you get into college or you're finishing up high school and they're like what college do you want to go to? And I hope they still don't do this nonsense. The guidance counselor makes you take a test and then tells you which jobs you should have.
Sarah Caminiti:Oh, yeah, oh, I'm sure that's still sticking around and then tells you which jobs you should have.
Greg Collins:Oh yeah, oh, I'm sure that's still sticking around. That's a tragedy. Getting out of that framework or trap of this is the title, or this is the job, or this is the industry. And more into I was leaving one job and a previous boss of mine. I was talking to her and she said Greg, I just think you need to do the basic thing of get out a piece of paper and draw a T On the left-hand side. Write what you get at On the right-hand side, what brings you joy, look for the intersection and go hunt that. Stop looking for titles, stop worrying about the career progression.
Greg Collins:I don't know about others, but I know my happiness goes up the last time I spend on LinkedIn. It's kind of like the Instagram. Yes, everyone has an incredible vacation home and their life is perfect and every job is amazing. There's a lot of pretense there that I think misguides our expectations, and so I think looking internally to then go search externally is becoming harder and harder to do. But maybe podcasts like this helps people remember to look inwards and focus on their strengths and their joys versus the expectations of others.
Sarah Caminiti:No, I couldn't agree more of others. No, I couldn't agree more. And I think that embracing community outside of like a virtual like you know best foot forward version of yourself community and LinkedIn, on social media and the various forms but like actually a community where you can be vulnerable, you can say, hey, is this a normal thing or is this just like a weird thing that's happening?
Greg Collins:Is this me? Is this me? Yeah, be prepared. Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes it is you.
Sarah Caminiti:It is, it is, but you can have really cool conversations and they're honest conversations and so many times, especially in the SaaS space, the tech space, everything is very similar. It's a pretty standard formula for how things operate, even if they all have very different titles associated with it. I mean, I always crack up at the different ways that people like to promote a customer support role. I've been a happiness expert in one job, thank you, thank you. It was a really big deal for me. But you're right. I mean, the titles don't matter. In the grand scheme of things, it is the work that you produce and the impact that you can have within the space, and if you're doing it in a way that is true to your core values, then it's just you get so much more out of it.
Greg Collins:I also think it's good to be honest about your objective, like with yourself, because job hopping or title hunting, if your objective is to get to another place, I'm fine with that. Let's go make sure that I get the manager or the director or the deep title, because I got to do this, this and this. I think it's just being clear that what is your plan and what are you willing to sacrifice for that?
Sarah Caminiti:Giving a journey to you, like allowing yourself a journey to figure it out. I mean, ask 22-year-old me what is the ultimate goal and I will tell you a million times over it is not leading and building support teams and tech companies, mostly because I had no idea that that was a thing?
Greg Collins:yeah, I, I didn't play that in the backyard as a kid no, no, that was not.
Sarah Caminiti:that was not a halloween costume that I put myself in year after year. Um, but we have no idea what the future holds and what the little teams are that are going to start popping up and emerging. And if you are always being cognizant of your skills and your passions and the things that you don't like, that you don't want to compromise on, and letting yourself set that boundary, then you can spot those things when they do pop up in a much easier way and start to think, hey, maybe this is something that could actually work for me. I've never heard of this before and start asking questions Something you said earlier, greg, about boundaries. I would love to know from you how you found the best way to approach setting boundaries, because it can go south fast. You can be perceived as a bit of a dick sometimes if you're setting boundaries, and how have you found success setting those in a way that is respectful but still firm?
Greg Collins:Yeah, so I think it's. So. First of all, I'm not going to profess that I'm the expert to write a book here, but I can share what usually works for me when I execute it well, and I'd say it's two pieces. It's one first, internally what are my boundaries? And there's two how do I communicate them? So, internally, a phrase that I was given once upon a time is fog, the acronym fog, fear, obligation and guilt. Are you making decisions out of place of fog? Am I saying yes at a fear? Am I saying yes at an obligation? Am I saying yes at a guilt?
Sarah Caminiti:That's a good one, Holy Hi my name is Greg.
Greg Collins:I've been around about 47 years and I am a pleaser.
Greg Collins:I am a pleaser, and pleasers have a tendency to attract takers Both in their professional life and in their personal life. And the personal life we'll set aside. But on the professional life, I don't think it's nefarious. But if you're smart and you work hard and you're a pleaser, it's very easy to be taken advantage of. Yes, so for me, just to have fog as a framework is good. Am I saying yes to my boss, to this colleague, to this client, out of fog? If so, that's an immediate step I can reevaluate. Doesn't mean you don't do it, but now at least I'm aware. Maybe I have to do this and there's a very real consequence and I should fear it. But at least I'm conscious of why I'm making, what is my decision framework, what is driving it forward. So fog has been helpful for me in my journey and just setting boundaries and making clear-minded decisions. Why am I doing it Fog? The second thing is to communicate it.
Greg Collins:I think a very well-known paradigm or framework would be a radical candor. If you haven't read it out there, it's a great book, it's worth reading. If you don't like to read, google and you'll find a video and they'll tell you in five minutes reading If you don't like to read. You know Google and you'll find a video and notes. I am five minutes, but I think there is great strength in service and caring enough to have conflict. Yeah, caring enough to have conflict is how I would summarize radical candor Versus.
Greg Collins:I think so often, especially as a pleaser, it's tempting to live in that ruinous empathy, whereas I just want you to be happy, I want it right, but it's just a disservice. So for me, going into a lens of conflict, it's not about winning, it's not the fixed pie, it's not right or wrong. We talked about that incredible book, the 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership. Which is above the line or below the line? Below the line, I need to be right and I'm defensive. Above the line, we talked about a word you used a little bit ago am I curious, right? Am I having fun? Am I curious? Am I trying to find the solution or am I trying to be right? So I think, when dealing with conflict, if I care enough and my goal is to be of service, not to be right then the conflict has a tendency to go away. And if it didn't, I think that says more about the person I'm speaking to than it does about me.
Sarah Caminiti:Oh man, you just summed that up so perfectly. Yes, and that is something that we all need to think about often, where we don't have to hold that bottom line responsibility for how someone else perceives us If we are approaching situations and we are curious, we are open and we're firm. You know we. We have to be true to our. You know we have to think about ourselves, we have to respect ourselves enough to be firm, but we're so respectful and and provide context and if it's still not perceived well and the other person is not open into having a conversation about why it wasn't perceived well, that's not on you.
Greg Collins:No.
Greg Collins:And then yeah, yeah. So one of the things I learned we talked about the reflective period and then where I am what I learned is how important to write a leadership culture was for me in joining a company Not placing judgment on what is good culture or bad culture, just culture and my definition of where I thrive, understanding my personality and what kind of leadership team I need to be surrounded, what kind of safe environment I need, what safety for me. That was a big piece of it. And David, our CEO and founder of Boldr. And David, our CEO and founder of Boldr, is phenomenal in the EQ and IQ. Where I am in a place where I can share.
Greg Collins:Hey, these are my tendencies and I will sometimes overcommit out of fog, but it happened last week where he's like, hey, I need this, this and this and my plate was full and there's no way. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, absolutely, I can get that done. And then I get the phone and then, like an hour later, I need this, this and this and my plate was full and there's no way. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, absolutely, I can get that done. And then I get the phone and then, like an hour later, I'm stressed out about it and I like kind of take my breath and think about fog and what can I do, and I'm like, hey, this is only conflict if you're scared of the result versus you're trying to. Actually I jumped into solution space and it's just not healthy for either one of us.
Greg Collins:I dropped this on our one-on-one doc for next Monday. Can we tackle it then? And for him to come back and say, yeah, great, talk to you on Monday. Thanks so much, versus. In the past I wouldn't have had those boundaries and I would have assessed about it and worked on it, woke up at 2.15, worked on it again. So I share that in a way of to kind of mill those two things around boundaries, but not all just being reflective of how is it for me I can practically apply those in my day to day. But if I don't do that it's kind of selfish and self-destructive because I didn't help David achieve his objectives. I certainly wasn't a good servant to my team to put them in a position to win, and you can see how that then ripples out to our clients. So I think just even those little, kind of small decisions of am I trying to be of service and what are my boundaries are actually really healthy ways to serve others.
Sarah Caminiti:Definitely it parallels well to something that I've really kind of I think about all the time, and that's assumptions. And what is an assumption? And I mean, aside from what do we know about assumptions? It makes an ass out of you and me, me and you, whatever one it is. But really assumptions are showing someone that you don't care enough to find out if you're doing it right, if there is urgency to it. You don't care enough to give yourself the grace to pause and to take it off of your shoulders, and that could be fear, that could be trauma.
Sarah Caminiti:There could be so many reasons for why you jumped to an assumption, but I think of assumptions like a Mad Lib, like you were given a Mad Lib and an assumption. You're just, you're putting in those random words and you don't really know what it's going to look like in the end because you don't have all the facts, because you were curious enough to find out what those facts were, and so your boss, you know not really feeling that needing to, needing you to feel that urgency for that project, because you were curious enough to ask is this something that needs to happen right now? And by asking if you can talk about it next week, like if you didn't do that, you were filling out that mad lib as if this was on fire and it would have been a totally different project than than if you would have done what you did and taken the time to actually pause and and sit with it.
Greg Collins:Not only that, I discovered I'd already done it and it was a different project and just hadn't told anybody.
Sarah Caminiti:Yet and if you made an assumption, then you would have made something totally new, yeah, but it hits you in the butt and you end up hurting yourself more in the end than because you're not just, like you were saying, with the service. You are not providing a service to someone if you're hoping for the best and just doing something and making a best guess about what it is that actually needs to happen. No, if you're wanting to provide a service, you understand something fully. You ask thoughtful questions, you have conversations, you gather the facts and sometimes you have to do that in iterations because the timeline doesn't allow you to thoroughly investigate all the different ways that that web can go. But be cognizant of that.
Sarah Caminiti:Say, this is what I can do right now, but I know in a couple of months I'm going to spend some time to look and see what the impact is for this and this and this and this, and don't just walk away from it, because nobody wins when something isn't done completely. Too many companies, I feel now especially I mean I've just been kind of introduced to it more so especially lean into that MVP a little bit too heavily and I learned recently that MVP was not most valuable player and that's a cruel, a cruel thing that they have done with those three letters. But no, it's, nobody wins. People just get so stressed.
Greg Collins:They do, they do OKRs, nbos, all of the different things KPIs, KPIs.
Sarah Caminiti:MBOs, all of the different things.
Greg Collins:KPIs.
Sarah Caminiti:So many KPIs, so many KPIs.
Greg Collins:TLAs. You know that one. Oh, that's a bad joke, sarah. Three-letter acronym TLA. Kpis, mbos it's a funny way to make. It's a three-letter acronym a TLA, oh, three-letter. You know what? It's a bad joke. It's a three-letter acronym a.
Sarah Caminiti:TLA, oh, three-letter. You know what it's a bad joke.
Greg Collins:It's a bad joke, it's not mine.
Sarah Caminiti:Thank you for saying it's a bad joke, instead of just acknowledging the fact that my brain broke when you said that and I had nowhere to go with that it is. It is a TLA. It's a three-letter acronym. Yeah, there's too many of them.
Greg Collins:The bad joke you will hear me say in a lot of meetings internally is they're called KPIs, not KPEs. They're indicators, not explainers.
Sarah Caminiti:Why are we measuring it? Huh, I like that. I like that to like if you're going into a space that does need some improvements and people have not been able to understand what is required of them in order to define, kind of, what good is, then once you define what good is and you're actually able to celebrate and move forward and find other ways to take it to the next level, then those KPIs kind of have to get put on a shelf, as this helped us. Now we're where we need to be. We were able to acknowledge things, motivate people the way that maybe they needed to be motivated. But now we're done.
Greg Collins:I like to use just a handful of KPIs and I like to look at them, not in terms of am I hitting the benchmark, but what is the trend, is it going up or is it going down and I try and find ones that are again indicators that tell me if I need to start looking further.
Greg Collins:For the explanation Again, they're KPIs, not KPEs is.
Greg Collins:When I was at Zendesk, we were working really hard to try and reduce the amount of effort our advocates were using to serve our clients, and so we had I mean, you know how many metrics you have in support.
Greg Collins:The one we landed on as a leadership team is let's focus on requests for wait time, because we thought that was a singular metric that we could watch going up or down. That actually told us multiple things, and the two most important things are what is the impact to the client, how much time are they waiting and what is the effort that the advocate is doing so for us in that particular ecosystem at that time and our goals and objectives. Watching that one KPI of whether it was trending up or trending down then gave us indicators of how the different projects we were working on, whether it was a knowledge base, whether it was our answer, response engines, all the different strategies we had tied into a KPI that let us know if it was going up or down, which allowed us to have a conversation at a high level of whether we were succeeding, not. Is it 0.2 or 0.4? No, and the 50 KPIs that are underneath it, with all the projects that are trying to drive the high level one.
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Sarah Caminiti:Oh, I like that. I think that that's really valuable because, with KPIs, the best thing that I've seen from them is they offer opportunities for conversations when those conversations were sometimes difficult to figure out how to articulate beforehand. And if you have a goal in mind and you're able to define the goal with your team and everybody understands the reasons for the goal and you're tracking it and you're monitoring it, you can start to have better conversations to be like hey, actually this went down because of this blocker that came up. Oh, let's look into this blocker and see what's going on there, and it may have been a little bit trickier to get to that point without that.
Greg Collins:I think the power of KPIs is to facilitate conversation and discovery, not to determine success. Yep.
Sarah Caminiti:Agree 100%.
Greg Collins:But they're often used as determining success. Yes, and if you achieve it well, then we need to make it higher, and if you don't, then you're punished. Yes, and it's just a misuse of the concept.
Sarah Caminiti:Yep, no definitely.
Greg Collins:Are we, as a company and as a strategy department of division, improving or not?
Sarah Caminiti:Yep, yeah, yeah. That is something that people don't talk about often is what happens when that KPI is reached. What's the next step? Like do you celebrate? Do you sit in it? Do you just see what happens when everybody is at a good foundational level? No, sit in it. Do you just see what happens when everybody is at a good foundational level? No, you say, well, now you're a failure again because I've just upped the ante and you're all in the red because nobody's hitting it.
Greg Collins:So what are you going to do? So I did something a little crazy, but I didn't anyways. When I joined Boldr, I joined halfway through Q1. So all the MBOs from my division are already set right. You're inheriting them. So now I'm I don't know 30, 45 days in and we got to set the MBOs for the next quarter and I'm like I just found the bathroom.
Sarah Caminiti:Wait, you can't define those already. Come on, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah Caminiti:And so on one metric I said I put a BHAG, I put a B hack, I put a big crazy number up there that I did not think I could hit at all, but I put it up there and in the notes, behind the definition of the MBO I put, success would be determined if I can tell you why I hit it or why I missed it, not if I hit it or miss it. Wow, what a great introduction to who you are as a leader by having that be how you're setting the tone.
Greg Collins:And then every other week, when I went into the leadership meeting and had to update, I had about five different strategies that were supporting that one MBO, which had a very black and white KPI, and I talked about why it was going up or why it was going down, instead of I hit it or I'm on track.
Sarah Caminiti:You were learning about the company through this metric, like deep dive, because you were knowledgeable, you were able to talk about it, you were able to be confident in when you were explaining it and sharing why things maybe weren't going well, or an experiment that you wanted to try and see the results for it's. But I just I love that you came in for a leadership role in a company that wasn't your typical space and, instead of saying you know, asserting your dominance, or instead of being quiet, you said you know what I'm going to. I'm going to just set a tone here. I'm Greg.
Sarah Caminiti:I like to have conversations, I like to experiment, I like to see what's possible and I like to understand things fully. And in order to do that, I'm going to set this lofty goal, and I know it's probably not going to happen, and that's totally okay, because we're going to get to talk about goal. And I know it's probably not going to happen, and that's totally okay, because we're going to get to talk about why it's not happening or why it is happening, and that's going to be a really cool place for us to be.
Greg Collins:I don't know if I said it quite like that, but if I ever need an agent, I'm going to give you a call. Can I bring you to my next leadership meeting now to introduce my objectives, sarah? Um, back to the culture piece, though. Um, it, it, it. I I needed to find a company that had a leadership team that attacked problems, not people, and I found that here at Boldr it is.
Greg Collins:It is a leadership team that leans into challenges collectively, instead of assigning blame and taking credit, which is a hard thing to find at a, at a leadership team. Um, but yeah, there's a, there's a team that has that curiosity, that so there's an environment that allows me to do that. I just say that because, um, not every job I've had I could walk in. It's not a reflection of me and, wow, look look at that leader and that new tactic he's going to write a book. No, no, I had an environment that was welcoming to that kind of thought and approach. So, yeah, read the room is, I guess, the second piece of advice before you do something like that.
Sarah Caminiti:Read the room? Yes, for sure, and but you did say something that I think is so true. And in this bizarre job market that so many people are finding themselves in, being able to read a room and understand what that leadership team is like and how that impacts a company can be so overwhelming and sometimes deceiving, and I'm glad that you found a place that actually their actions spoke louder than their words and uh, and they, they allow everybody to shine in a way that's just supportive, because that's really important.
Greg Collins:That's a special thing. Do you do you have, uh, any kind of um go-to approaches or questions to try and suss out the culture of a company or a room, Just like I'm? I'm getting so many phone calls from people who are looking for a new opportunity, and so it's a common question I'm fielding as far as what should I look for, and my bias is to say you should start with culture first. So you have to know what kind of culture you want. But do you have any tips or tricks or successes or failures in terms of going and finding culture questions?
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, that's such a great thing because a lot of companies and I am going to sound negative when I say this, but I think maybe I need to sound negative when I say this A lot of companies know how to say the right thing and they know how to present the culture questions in a very positive way.
Sarah Caminiti:And the realities are often very different and what I have learned with my most recent job experience hunting experience is I went in bold, I went in confident and I went in like not thinking. I am so grateful that you took this time to meet with me. I approached it as I am a leader who is skilled and I'm glad to be here to talk to you, but I'm not going to hold back and to be able to read a room. When you approach something confidently tells you more about the people that you're going to be surrounding yourselves with than any question that you can ask, because you just showed them who you are and are they open to that, or or are they going to to try to take little bits of that away because you don't want that?
Greg Collins:yeah.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah.
Greg Collins:I like that.
Sarah Caminiti:And I will say this too One of the coolest things of it is I let myself be known from the very beginning and that allowed me to ask those difficult questions or those taboo-ish questions Like I'm not looking to have another child, but I did ask about what the parental leave policies are, because I think that that says a lot about how companies treat their employees. Looking to have another child, but I did ask about what the parental leave policies are Because I think that that says a lot about how companies treat their employees. I asked about the hybrid environment and how flexible things are. I said I'm a mom. What's it going to be like when I have to go and pick up my kid because he's sick? Can I talk to another mom that's been with the company for a while and understand what her experience has been like here? And they just they answered all of these things so thoughtfully.
Sarah Caminiti:And the people on the other end as soon as I got off the call, they would email me or they would call me the person that was my talent acquisition person. She sent me a pep talk email right before I did a presentation and said she was thinking about me and those little things matter. They are. They are. They're showing you who they really are in those times where it could be difficult or it could be unnecessary. And uh, and I went to work for a company that is totally not where I saw myself working. I'm not in SaaS anymore Me too. It's a ride.
Sarah Caminiti:It is such a ride, but if you're in a place where you feel like you're around good people, it doesn't matter what it is Like. Good people are good people and they make you want to be better.
Greg Collins:Agreed. Thanks for sharing that.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, no problem, I hope that. I hope that the people that, uh, that reach out to you and that says so much about who you are, that people are reaching out to you right, because it's you know, it's it's a crazy world out there, but you have to be vulnerable to reach out to people and, uh, people are reaching out to you because you've shown them that that's an okay thing in your space.
Greg Collins:Can I do something that wasn't planned? Do it. Let's talk about getting fired, because that is multiple calls a month from people who got downsized. They got let go. They're just miserable. They took the job because they had to have one, not because it's what they wanted, and the first 30 minutes is the same conversation which is getting them past the shame of being let go. Yep. So I'll just say on record everyone you've met has been fired. They just haven't told you I've been fired. It's okay, you're going to be fired.
Greg Collins:I was talking to someone in his mid fifties who was just given a three month exit. So it's a lovely firing right. And he's like I've never been fired. I'm like sure you have. He's like no, I've never been fired. I'm like, of course you have. He's like no, I'm like he. He was surprised again, like we tease that sometimes linkedin can be used like instagram, that everyone has a beautiful house and cars and vacation homes and a yacht. Um, no one wants to put that out there, but there are so many reasons that a company will let you go, whether it's a different boss, a different strategy, maybe their P&L and EBITDA has changed. There's all these different things that I just want to remove this stigma of being let go. You're working for decades, things happen, it's okay. So I have that conversation with people a lot. I'm like no, I've been fired too, it's okay. It doesn't mean you did something wrong, it doesn't mean you're incompetent. It's called life, it's okay. Take a deep breath, rub some dirt on it. Next let's go.
Sarah Caminiti:And the cool thing because I've been having a lot of conversations with people as well that have been impacted in various ways, from companies that are ending their contract for whatever reason, and and what I've I've I've started to really remind folks is the people that I've met that were also impacted in the going on to do things that they never thought that was it was possible, like it has been with my last episode. The Elise was when we first recorded in May. She had recently been let go. She had been with the company for eight years. She was an excellent employee.
Sarah Caminiti:There was nothing wrong with her, nothing wrong whatsoever. She did nothing wrong. But she was let go and so her mindset, her space, was just nervous but also curious, and she committed to going out of her comfort zone and doing coffee chats and meeting new people and talking to people and giving yourself that time that you don't have when you're in the grind. And we had to redo her era before her episode was released, because the day that her severance ran out was her first day at this job.
Sarah Caminiti:that totally changed the job description and the requirements to meet her and fit her, and they're just so excited to have her on board leading this huge team and doing all these incredible things. None of that would have happened, though, if she would have stayed where she was, and none of it would have happened if she didn't start asking questions about what it is that she loves to do and what's meaningful to her, and I think that that's a message that, while it seems cliche and it seems like I'm just trying to cheer you up, it's the reality. It really is. Things happen. It's an opportunity to evaluate and reflect and be cognizant of what it is that you want to provide this world, and then also how your actions impact others and what are the boundaries, and once you kind of define those, you start to look at job descriptions differently.
Greg Collins:You do to that a threat, I would add, is when I was younger and, uh, building my career and getting out there, everyone said, greg, you got a network, you got a network. You always get your next job by networking, network, network, network, your, your, your job security and your career is only as good as your network. And I didn't hear them. And, uh, I but I wish I used to kind of lament and beat myself up that I didn't network harder. And then we all get busy with our jobs and you just don't network. But, um, akin to why I was excited that you asked me if I'd be willing to to meet and participate today is if, if you know the old question, what would you tell yourself? If you were, I would have said, um, don't always be, network, constantly be looking for ways to be of help, yes, networking for networking sake.
Greg Collins:I don't know. You say networking. Or someone says, oh, you're going to network. I'm like, oh, that's exhausting, I don't want to do that, it's insincere, it's exhausting. But my great opportunities have come from just being kind and giving. And it comes and finds you. So I guess I would have told myself when I was younger, instead of always being networking, just always being helpful. Just look for ways to be helpful.
Sarah Caminiti:Yep, yep, quietly, loudly. However it is that makes sense for the situation. Be open to saying yes to people that are coming to you, because if anybody is coming to you asking a question or if anyone's just asking a question to the universe, they are taking a risk. And how would you feel if you were on the other end of that and making the leap to start posting on social media about stuff that's not rosy and shiny and yacht driven is scary. But to do it and then see, holy cow, this really meant a lot to me. Holy cow, can we talk about this? Can we get on a call to talk about this? You start to see, oh, that risk actually helps somebody with their journey and their day. And now I'm excited to continue to help other people see that they should be proud of themselves or they should do all of these little things, and it's just, it's a really cool ripple effect.
Greg Collins:Ripple effect. I like that analogy.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, yeah, I do too.
Greg Collins:What's my ripple today?
Sarah Caminiti:Your ripple is that you are helping a lot of people. That is a pretty cool ripple.
Greg Collins:Oh, I meant that for all of us. What an interesting way to end my day. We started this conversation with being reflective, and what has it done for me. What an interesting framework it would be, at the end of each of my day, to say what was my ripple.
Sarah Caminiti:That's a good one to do with my kids too. What?
Greg Collins:was my ripple.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, man, I really like that, I like that a lot.
Greg Collins:That is uh we should do a podcast.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, what, what? Where did that come from? That was left field. Uh, no, that is. Uh. This could be the the name of this podcast episode, though, because, yeah, because, dang, greg, like being able to give yourself the space to reflect on your day, and not in a way of how it served you, in a way of how it served others is a pretty awesome way to end your day, and then, what kind of mindset will you be in when you start your day?
Greg Collins:I'm really excited about this, sarah. I notice when I'm in ruts or frustrated, it's because I started my day from a position of anxiety, of things I need to get done, or I'm worried about it. But when I start my day and I get my cup of coffee and I let my dog out and I say what am I grateful for today? When I start my day in a practice of gratitude I'm sorry, gratitude there's a direct correlation to how my day goes. So I wonder if I bookend it, if I start my morning with a practice of gratitude, even if it is something significant or something very significant, and I end it with what was my ripple? Who did I impact? What would that set me up for the next day?
Sarah Caminiti:Gosh, the world could be a pretty cool place if that ripple started to ripple and it caught on, because, getting people to start thinking about how did they impact others as they conclude their day, that could open up a lot of really cool conversations. Yeah, thank you for that. Looking you, thank you dropping it like it's hot, so, uh, I think I also said that to you in an email and then yes, you did I did. And then I said I am so sorry that I said that. And what am I doing?
Greg Collins:just saying that here, sarah, you be you. There's enough others in this world.
Sarah Caminiti:It's true, it's true, you are uh, you're getting the full, the full picture right now. Um so, Greg, after that little party, I got to ask you like I ask all the guests that gift me with their time here on the show what era do you find yourself in, or what era are you entering right now?
Greg Collins:I would say exploration.
Sarah Caminiti:That's a good era. That's a good era. That's a curious era. I mean you can't really go wrong with that.
Greg Collins:I am. There's that idea that the more you learn about something, the more you realize how little you know. The more you learn about something, the more you realize how little you know I'm. I'm realizing just how little I know about myself and how little I know about what I could do to be a positive impact to others, and so I would say I'm in an era of exploration. How is it I can better understand my gifts and talents and how they impact others? So I can double down on that and be intentional.
Sarah Caminiti:I think we're going to have to have a follow-up in a handful of months and kind of circle back to this and see what you've uncovered, because I think we could learn a lot from that.
Greg Collins:Let's do. It Sounds like fun. Thank you so much. I appreciate you and I appreciate what you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you and I appreciate what you're doing on this podcast. Uh, it's um. The more people that shine lights, the the brighter the world, so thanks for that.
Sarah Caminiti:Thank you, greg, and thank you for your time and for your openness and for your conversation. I um, I think the world is a better place because you're in it and uh, and I'm grateful for you. Thank you, have a wonderful day. Thank you, you too. See you later. What a powerful conversation to have as we wrap up this season of Epochal Growth. Greg's reflection on leadership, boundaries and service reminds us that success isn't just about hitting numbers. It's about understanding the why behind everything that we do. As we head towards the final episodes of this season, I encourage you to take Greg's wisdom to heart Reflect, set boundaries and stay curious about how you can make an impact in your work and life. Thank you so much for tuning in and remember your era of growth is always evolving. Until next time, keep showing up, keep leading and keep growing. I'm Sarah Caminiti. Have a great day.
