Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
Welcome to Epochal Growth, the podcast dedicated to transforming the way we lead by embodying the change we seek. Embracing the belief that we are the leaders we’ve been waiting for, our mission is to empower leaders to create impactful and lasting transformations in their organizations.
Hosted by industry expert Sarah Caminiti, each episode brings together visionary leaders and change-makers to explore the profound impact of inclusive and intentional leadership. Through engaging conversations and insightful discussions, we reveal how these approaches can revolutionize businesses and drive innovation.
At Epochal Growth, we are passionate about showcasing the transformative power of intentional actions and inclusive practices. Whether you are a seasoned entrepreneur, an aspiring leader, or someone passionate about business transformation, our podcast provides valuable insights and practical advice to help you lead differently and inspire growth.
Join us on this journey to unlock the potential for transformative business success. Tune in to Epochal Growth and start being the change you seek in leadership.
Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
Revolutionizing Product Innovation Through Customer Support with Elyse Mankin
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What if customer support could be the secret weapon in your arsenal for product innovation? Join us as we chat with Elyse Mankin, who takes us on a journey from her marketing roots to becoming a pivotal figure in customer support.
We promise you'll discover how integrating support and product teams can revolutionize your approach to customer feedback and drive meaningful change. Elyse shares her invaluable insights on the evolving landscape of support, especially with the rise of AI, and how these advancements provide new opportunities for teams to focus on impactful work.
Building solid relationships across your organization is key, and Elyse underscores the importance of understanding customer feedback to inform product development. You'll learn how individual issues can reveal broader trends and how effective communication with other departments can lead to scalable solutions. Regular check-ins with key partners, like product managers, ensure alignment and maximize the effectiveness of support initiatives. This episode is packed with strategies for fostering a culture of curiosity and openness, allowing your team to experiment and innovate without fear of failure.
Transparency and effective communication are at the heart of enhancing the support experience. Elyse discusses the power of showing customers that their feedback is valued, which can significantly boost trust and engagement. We'll explore the crucial role of support teams as both product experts and problem solvers and the importance of cross-functional collaboration. Empowering support teams with autonomy and ownership, celebrating their successes, and embracing change are all vital components in driving innovation and achieving positive outcomes. Don't miss out on these game-changing insights that can transform your support strategy and elevate your product development process.
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
Hello listeners, welcome to Epochal Growth. In today's episode, we're diving into the world of customer support and how it can be a game changer for product innovation. Our guest, Elyse Menken, is an expert in turning customer feedback into actionable insights that drive real change. She'll share her top strategies for leveraging support data, building cross-functional collaboration and creating products that truly resonate with your customers. Whether you're in support, product development or just looking to innovate, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways. Let's get started. Thank you for coming here and your time for your first podcast, my very first one.
Elyse Mankin:I can't wait.
Sarah Caminiti:It's going to be good. I was looking through your LinkedIn and you have been doing this for a long time, but you started in marketing. I did yeah.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, I, you know, went to business school and was like I don't, what are these emphases? I don't know. I guess I'll pick marketing. And yeah, I got a job as a marketing assistant out of college and then scaled up to the marketing manager and realized that is not the way my brain works at all.
Elyse Mankin:No, why, not, um, it just you know, and maybe it was the, it was the type of work that I was doing there, but it just doesn't, it doesn't feed my soul, it's it's, it's too far away from the customer for me.
Elyse Mankin:Um, you know, at least the type of work that I was doing there, which was very much like SEO based. I was doing their email campaigns. Um, you know, I I wasn't, I really wasn't in a customer facing role and it it kind of took me a couple of iterations of of work after that to really realize, like, no, I like to be right in front of the customer and I like to be talking to you know, the people who are using our, you know tools or or whatever it is, um, you know, for the company that I'm working for. So, um, yeah, I kind of just slowly found my way into account management from there and then into, like, technical customer support and, um, I used Help Scout at my previous company, which is how I kind of came across their blog and fangirled for many years, very, very hard, and eventually, yeah, I found my way onto the support team there and grew quite a bit over those.
Sarah Caminiti:What seven and a half years or so it's a long time to be at a place and you built something so cool for yourself. I was looking at like the trajectory and like you should be really proud of yourself. That is a cool story that your job history. Thank you.
Elyse Mankin:Thank you.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, it was a really fun ride, I, you know, and it really honestly happened quite organically over there.
Elyse Mankin:When I joined the team, I like kind of had this interest in product and my manager at the time was, like, well, we'll get you in front of like some of the product projects, see, you know how you like it from a support perspective and you know, we'll kind of just like see what develops out of there. And you know, we'll kind of just like see what develops out of there. And through like starting to dip my toes in those waters, I realized that there was just this huge gap or huge need to like really bridge the support and the product teams together in just a more meaningful way. It's not like we didn't talk to each other, we did, but you know, there was just more to go there in terms of like really creating a cool partnership to support customers in a deeper way. So, um, yeah, I'm really proud of of the way that the team was built and just all of the cool things they were able to accomplish um, over, you know, during my time there was, it was a really it was a really fun ride.
Sarah Caminiti:That's so special. That's so special and you had such a huge part in it, and now it's a perfect time for these sorts of conversations, with the history that you've had and the knowledge that you've been able to gather over the years, because finally people are being more vocal about it. People are being more vocal about it Finally. They're like accepting that all the stuff they've been hearing quietly you know the whispers about over the years are thinking maybe this could actually be a way to go.
Sarah Caminiti:You're coming in and it's like no, no, really like I've been doing this for years and this is why it's so important.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, yeah, you know, and I think too, just it's an interesting time and support um, just generally speaking, with all of the evolution that's happening. You know, I know AI is the big buzzword right now, but it's it's not something to be taken lightly either. I mean, if you can implement AI in a way that makes sense for your customers number one, uh, and it's still providing a really good experience for them. But number two is also unlocking, maybe, some capacity for your team. You get to get really creative in how you want to support your customers in a deeper, more robust, more helpful way, and that could include the product arm, it could include education, it could include team training.
Elyse Mankin:There's so many things that you can do and that's what gets me excited. It's like, okay, how can? It could include team training. There's so many things that you can do and that's what gets me excited. It's like, okay, how can we now take all of these tools and all of this you know, um, this evolution that's in front of us, and use it in like a really fun, creative way to have a deeper impact for your customers and for your business?
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. And the opportunity that AI has provided more, and the opportunity that AI has provided for acknowledging the incredibly intelligent folks that live and support, but also giving them the opportunity to acknowledge it themselves, because they're not so busy just trying to put out all the fires that they have to put out all the time makes for very cool conversations that you wouldn't have been able to have otherwise, yeah, I agree A hundred percent.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, it's a cool time. It's a cool time. So before we dive in, dive in, I want you to have a chance to introduce yourself in any way that you would like to introduce yourself. So, Elyse, nice to meet you.
Elyse Mankin:Yes, yes, Thank you for having me. Yeah, no, it's a pleasure to be here. First podcast I am. Yeah, I was thinking about my bio. I've been in support customer service really since my very first job hosting birthday parties at my local ice rink, so you know most. Previously I was the director of product support at Help Scout, where I built and scaled the voice of customer support readiness and our documentation functions on our support team. Yeah, I'm just really excited to talk about all the ways support can be a really big value add for customers and for your business.
Sarah Caminiti:I am so pumped that this is what we're going to be talking about, because this is the opportunity right now for folks in support to be aware of all of the different areas that they can use what they have and grow what they have and build it, because one of the biggest struggles in support is you don't know what you don't know until it's too late. And that goes for data, but that also goes for sharing information within your company and getting you that seat at the table. If you don't know what you're supposed to provide, then how are you supposed to do it? And all of the information that we're going to be chatting about today sets a foundation, because it gives you that baseline to be successful and to be confident when you're going into those spaces. So thank you for choosing this as your area of focus, and I'm so excited to learn from you, because there's a lot to know about the value add factor of support and how that can impact your business in a transformative way.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, it's a really cool one. Lots to talk about there, for sure.
Sarah Caminiti:Yes, yeah, before the podcast, we go over some things and I have this whole list that AI generates and, oh my goodness, folks listening, there was a list and it was robust. Each one could have been like a seven hour conversation in and of itself. So we'll try to keep this as uh, as focused and uh as we can, without, you know, having to order takeout for dinner because we've been here for so long. But one of the first things I want to know, Elyse, is what was your introduction to the value that lived within the data and support?
Elyse Mankin:That's a really yeah, that's a good question. You know, I think when I think of value add and the way that I was really introduced to it, honestly it started with like a single conversation in trying to figure out. You know, okay, there's this question in front of me, right, I need to answer the question for the customer, but how can I support them, like even further from that one customer and thinking like outside of you know, what are they immediately asking me and how can I support maybe the things on the fringes there, just to give them the next steps that they might run into? And if you, you really take that idea of thinking beyond the ticket and scale that up to OK, what about now beyond the queue? I know that there's all these things happening in here. What are they, why are they happening and what can I do about it?
Elyse Mankin:Um, you know that to me has always been just like a really satisfying or interesting question to ask Um, because there's so much within support, within your direct control, that you can really move needles on Um and you have a lot of wiggle room within the support umbrella to again like just really get creative with how you want to be a value add to your customer, and it starts with your data. It starts with really understanding what are customers saying, what are they coming to you with, what are the problems that they're presenting your team with, and how can we solve those in a scalable way for them team with and how can we solve those in a scalable way for them.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, it's true, that is where you have to start. You have to start actually giving yourself the time to analyze the individual questions. You have to invest in the time for QA and using it. Not necessarily, I mean, you're going to learn things about how the agents are performing just by being in the space. But if the goal and the purpose of that time is not to scrutinize comma usage but instead to really drill down, what was that one reason that this person was no longer able to continue independently, and how does that impact their journey? Because what's the one thing that we know about support? If one person writes in, there were tons of other folks that kept it to themselves and did not share the information.
Elyse Mankin:It's that funnel right. You know you have all of your users and customers at the top and you know only a certain, very small usually percentage are writing in about whatever challenges in front of them. So yeah, I mean, if you can take that challenge or those trends and extrapolate it, you know, even with, like your product usage data, that can be a really compelling story to tell If you're advocating for change or even if you're just advocating to take on special projects within the support team, you can kind of really show that there's deeper impact here beyond you know maybe 5% of your customers asking about a certain thing that product usage data can be really helpful for just telling that story in a deeper way.
Sarah Caminiti:What was the best way, when you were trying to figure out how to present the data to other teams whether it be higher up in leadership or sharing it with the product team to explain why this is so important to focus on or to tweak? How were you successful?
Elyse Mankin:There's no, like you know, magic key here for this. I think that it really just comes down to really deeply knowing your people and also showing your work to a degree so you know if you were trying to advocate outside of the support department where you might need, you know, buy in from leadership or buy in from other departments. Relationship building here is key. Really kind of taking the time to get to know those leaders, get to know the people who you might want to work with or ask for resources from, is really critical. And in secondary to that, or maybe in tandem to that, is really deeply understanding how they like to receive information, what is important to them. You have to be able to speak their language. So, whether that's your revenue department has certain revenue goals that they want to hit and maybe you have something that could help them with that, speak in those languages and really make sure that you are tying your ask or what you are advocating for into what those folks care about at the time. And the same can be said for your organizational goals too. I think it's really critical, particularly if you're trying to make any like really big bets or really advocate for like large changes, to tie that into your org goals. So if, that is, you're all trying to reduce churn, that is like the number one thing you're focused on right now. You should be looking at your trends through that lens so that you can really say like these are like the top three things that I think we could do to really, you know, reduce our churn amount. And here's why.
Elyse Mankin:And if you can speak to those you know, to those goals and, again, really knowing your people and how they, how they like to receive information. Is it a report? Is it a pitch deck? Is it? Do they want all the context? Do they want the bare bones? You know these are all really important questions to ask and really deeply understand so that you can make sure that you're doing everything you can to be heard. Is really what it comes down to? You can to be heard. Is really what it comes down to. And then, equally important too, is just showing your work also in the same languages that makes sense to those people and tying up to those business goals.
Sarah Caminiti:That's such fantastic advice. It's one of the great gifts of being a support professional is the generalist mentality when you are in a space and your ability to look at things from other people's perspectives, and that is such a that is the magic ticket to to figuring out how to be all of these different things for so many different people, but in a way that's not overwhelming. You don't need to be an expert. You don't need to take courses on SEO or marketing.
Sarah Caminiti:They are experts for a reason and you're there to aid in their success and the customer's success and the company's success. How often did you find yourself checking in with these different departments to make sure that your approach was still the best way to move?
Elyse Mankin:forward Regularly. I mean, I think things change, people change, focuses change, right. I think that identifying who your main partners are is really important and then setting up a regular sync For me with our product managers. I always had like a monthly one-on-one where we would check in on all of the things on roadmap, on feedback, on what we're hearing from customers. You know, how is this working for everyone? All of those questions are all really important and I think, particularly with your closest partners, just making sure that you are touching base at a cadence that makes sense to you is really important, just to make sure everyone is staying on the same page and you're just working the most efficiently together. That's really what it's about is how can we, how can we all support each other in the best way right now? What is really working for us and what might we need to change or adjust?
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, I love that point because working efficiently, especially on smaller teams or teams that are investigating different ways to do things. Time is everything and if you can show the others that are in the other departments, I'm not here to waste your time, I'm here to really just fine tune this so that we can make the biggest impact together. Then it'll be so much easier to go into the next stage of things together, because you've created that foundation.
Elyse Mankin:Yep, and I think, really, just listening to your team on that too, you know, at least for me, they were in so many other spaces that I wasn't. So, you know, no idea is a bad idea, and I always like to tell them nothing is written in stone here. Well, we don't want to be changing things constantly, right, like there is the opposite end of the spectrum. That is a challenge. You know, if you're seeing challenges or problems pop up or you think there's a better way to do something, let's talk about it and try it. And you know, I think that's equally important for baking into the process, just to make sure that, again, we are all working as effectively as possible together.
Sarah Caminiti:I love that you did that. That is such an important thing. As a leader, you have to create a space where people are allowed to investigate and try and fail sometimes, but in a way that is a learning experience for everybody.
Elyse Mankin:Absolutely, absolutely. I feel like that's really foundational, particularly with this concept of value add in support. It's that you know, hiring for and instilling a very healthy sense of curiosity in your team, making it safe to fail and really empowering them to try different things Right, like you know, be clear on what you want to try to accomplish and what maybe those success measures are. But go try it and, you know, hopefully it works and we can really show that success story. But you know, if it doesn't, if we run into challenges or roadblocks, for any, you know any reason, we just talk about it, we learn from it and we move on and you know it's all a learning experience.
Sarah Caminiti:It is, and every person that's on your team, every person really within the company, represents some sort of customer that's using your service. And so taking all of those different ideas instead of creating a team where everybody thinks the same way, operates the same way, put such a disadvantage on communication with your customer, and that allows for so much more value to them, because then the customer themselves feel safe to ask those questions and to bring them to you.
Sarah Caminiti:How did you feel with the customer when you started to really see a change with product development that was customer-based and database and and started to see the impact that this was having within the customer experience and also within the business side of things? How did you communicate this with the customer?
Elyse Mankin:That's a good question.
Elyse Mankin:You know, on the backend, like with our processes and our the team that we really kind of created, we did a couple of you know more like inside scoop of help scout, like blog posts that we talked about the team, but for us in, in communicating like value to customers, it just really comes down to being consistent and closing those loops Right.
Elyse Mankin:So, whether it was like a bug that we advocated for or, you know, like a small improvement, we have a whole follow up process where, you know, every request from a customer is attached to a JIRA ticket if it's like a broken thing or a net new thing that they're asking for. So when those things are implemented and put into production, the support team follows up on them immediately. It could be a five-year-old ticket that like was this random little thing that they wanted? But you know, we think it's really important to just really close that loop for anyone who's requested. Who knows, maybe they moved away from the platform, you know, a while ago, but this was the thing they really wanted and it could bring them back. I just think it's a really nice like delight or touch on on top of the cake of you know, really kind of just showing we are listening, we hear you and these are the things that we are doing to build the product.
Sarah Caminiti:That is such an it's a really valuable thing that you can do and it doesn't take time, it doesn't?
Elyse Mankin:I mean, it does take a little bit of time, but a little bit, yeah, you can automate it for the most part Use your workflows, use your macros, I mean, you know it's quite simple as long as you have the infrastructure behind it.
Sarah Caminiti:No, definitely, Because I mean, the customers want to feel like they're part of the journey and even if it was something from five years ago, I almost feel like those five-year-old ones are the best ones, because then they know okay, not only do they not forget, but they were being honest with me when they said this isn't something that's on the roadmap for right now, but it is something that we're going to look into and, should it be something that we take on, we will let you know. And you did. You followed through.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, yeah, they are fun. Yeah, it's the. Oh my gosh, I couldn't. I totally forgot. I asked about this, or like I wasn't expecting a response. You know three years later, but this is so cool, thank you, and they're fun conversations I love it.
Sarah Caminiti:What was the? So, now that there's going to be such a shift, there's going to be, there is such a shift in talking about the value piece of support and the opportunities within support, what have you been seeing in any sort of space blogs, linkedin, social media, folks that you follow um, that's that really is hitting the nail on the head. And are there things that you're seeing that's kind of like a game of telephone where it's just getting a little bit muddied?
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, that's a good question. I I think just being really the folks who are just being very vocal and very clear with their impact is where, like, yeah, we're hitting the nail on the head. You know value add. When I think of value add, I think of this is a way to really like amplify support superpowers. It's getting very clear of, like, what is that for your team? They're your product experts. They are your deep, deep, deep problem solvers or deep researchers and how can we really amplify you know those amazing skills to not only impact you know the support team directly and the work that they're doing, but to have impact on your customers, to have impact on the business and really just be very transparent in your organization around that work and what that means.
Elyse Mankin:I think getting clear on the why it's important is critical because if without the why, I think it just muddies the waters quite a bit and it begs the question of like, well, if we don't understand the why, then what are we doing? And you know what? Why are we spending this time? Why are we spending this money on whatever project or initiative? This is so really really clearly communicating that why I think is quite critical. We are all very happy to help, very happy to step in Um, but it can create a situation where, like, roles and responsibilities get a little unclear, um, particularly cross-functional or cross team initiatives or projects. So you know, I think just getting very clear of you know where, where are these roles, who's responsible for what um and making sure you have buy-in from you know anyone on the team or any stakeholders ahead of a project or an initiative, starting is really critical for making sure that things are as clear as possible and then we can really speak to impact in a very clear, concise way.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, no, that's the transparency piece of it all is something that I'm realizing with all these wonderful conversations that I'm having with folks in the support world and CX in general.
Sarah Caminiti:That is how you can make a difference. There's really no reason not to be transparent, because everybody is a part of this with you. Everybody is a smart, capable human being that's able to process information in in a good way, and and when you start making assumptions about how they're going to take information or what they're going to pull from it, or they're not, they're not ready for this. How do you know? How do you know? You never tried, um, so yeah, well, you never know.
Elyse Mankin:Also, you know if we're not talking about what we're focusing on or what trends we're seeing or what we're thinking about as leaders. You know you. You just don't know what someone else in another department is thinking about. Maybe they are thinking about the exact same thing or seeing something very similar that could be very complimentary towards you know, getting something done or moving like a very specific impactful needle for the business. So, yeah, I just think it's really critical to talk about the things that you're seeing, the things you're focusing on, what you're thinking about, with all of your partners across the org.
Sarah Caminiti:When you're working with a team, when you're leading a team and you're trying, you're noticing this trend is happening all the time and it's coming in so many different ways, but it's a it's a big undertaking and you're presenting the information you're advocating for the customer. You're you're really trying to paint that clear picture and it's, there's not any movement. Um how, how does that work for you and your team?
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, you know, I think that's the age old uh support conundrum um is the. You know, you see these things so clearly, right, um, but for one reason or another, uh, they're, they're not prioritized or they're not moved on as quickly as you would like. I think getting very clear again with what metrics count in this situation is important. If it's something that is broken, that needs to be fixed, or something that customers are really tripping over and getting very confused which still counts in that broken bucket for me, and getting very confused, which still counts in, like that broken bucket for me, I think getting very clear of, like, what is the cost to that is very helpful not only to customers but to the support team as well. You know, not all bugs are created equally. Some are, like, very straightforward and can be pushed a little bit, just in the grand scheme of things. But if they're really kind of creating the situation where customers are, you know, not able to do what they need to do in the product, maybe they're getting completely thrown off the path of what they're intending to do. Maybe there's a lot of you know, heavy support overhead in supporting this bug. They have to go in and fix something manually or like they really have to like handhold customers in a very deep way through this. Getting very clear and communicating that in a concise way is critical. And then I think too, just kind of taking fresh eyes at the situation as well.
Elyse Mankin:I'm remembering an issue that we had a few years ago that evaded all of us. We could not figure it out for the life of us. I mean, we had engineering, support, product people, everyone looking at this and was like we can't figure it out, I have no idea. And the trend just kept growing. Customers were so unhappy and it just kind of felt like it was going to defeat us to a degree. But taking a fresh look at it, um, one of us was able to figure out like wait a minute, there's a common thread here, uh, with another feature in the platform and it turned out that like that was the root of the bug. And so just kind of taking like a fresh perspective, like just kind of, you know, removing all of the maybe assumptions or, you know, preconceived ideas that you have about a situation as much as you can from your mind, to take like a very fresh look at something. I think that is also the value that can't be understated or bringing someone in fresh. They can look at it from a different perspective.
Sarah Caminiti:Definitely. I mean, the fresh eyes is sometimes the biggest superpower that you can throw at something. It goes in so many different ways, but you have to remember.
Elyse Mankin:It seems so simple. It does A lot of things do seem so simple.
Sarah Caminiti:But, dang, is it effective? Yes, agreed, yeah, how often do you find yourself trying to find fresh pairs of eyes to look at things? From documentation, it's always helpful.
Elyse Mankin:Honestly, I mean, I can't really think of a situation where it's not helpful, whether it's like a proofread right, just to like make sure that this looks good, or, you know, like I'm really like hitting my head against the wall trying to figure out what's happening here and, you know, bringing in that fresh perspective even when talking to customers. We know that, you know, pulling just a different voice into the conversation can be like the helpful, like reset that you need in a situation. So, yeah, I I think it's critical, you know, just to really build that community, that collaboration within your team.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, I agree, I agree. So you've been working in the product support area for a while now. How does that differ from other areas of support?
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, so to me it is just part and parcel of it. So the product support team at Help Scout I think it is still very critical that those folks who are in maybe more of like the value add focuses as their main priority are still in the queue. They are work up into the queue 25 to 50% of their time. For me, I think it is hard to advocate for customers if you don't really deeply understand them, how they use the product, how they talk about it, how everything is interconnected and you know there is a very unique superpower with support teams in very deeply understanding this and particularly teams that are using their platform as well, using it and supporting it at the same time. It's just really, really critical to be talking to your customers as well. So I think of them half as frontline, but half the value add functions as well, and the intersection to me is very interesting and I think it creates for not only like a really interesting role and interesting work, but just a lovely way to improve the customer experience.
Sarah Caminiti:It really does. It's a bridge. It's a bridge that wasn't there before, and it's really cool to see that happening more often within the CX space.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, it's a fun way to create some growth paths for your team as well. Right, you know whether it whether you make a dedicated role for it, or maybe it's just you know special initiatives that you're doing or special projects, and this goes beyond. You know just the, the product arm of support as well. It could be documentation, it could be education, training there's a number of things that you can do, but it creates that opportunity for time out of the queue and time to just reset a little bit and have impact in a deeper, different but still very like support centric way.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, yeah, it's true. There's so many different corners of support and allowing space to explore those and and really lean into folks areas of excitement or expertise and let them shine. You got to do that as a leader.
Elyse Mankin:Yep, yeah, Stretch your legs. Stretch your wings Exactly For for you, throughout your legs.
Sarah Caminiti:Stretch your wings Exactly For you. Throughout your career, you've started in one space, discovered support and built a whole new corner of support to lead and to grow. What are the superpowers that you found for yourself within that time? I think?
Elyse Mankin:yeah, it comes back to curiosity and really just relationship building. For me, I think those two are really important. I've also been thinking quite a bit about just like horizontal knowledge and, really, to your point, you don't have to be a specialist in marketing or in revenue or in product to have impact in all of those areas, but you have to be curious about them and you have to be open to learning about them. And you know, having that being able to work broadly across different functions in different departments in different departments, but also specialize in your vertical, I think is a really powerful way to work and a really powerful way to have impact. And one way that you do that is through relationship building. Right, go meet a friend at retreat or in the office for marketing and have them talk about a project that they're working on.
Elyse Mankin:It's a really great way to one get to know people. Have them talk about a project that they're working on. It's a really great way to one get to know people. But two, learn from them, learn what they're focused on, learn what they maybe challenges that they're running into or concerns that they have. It's a fun, collaborative way to just learn about the organization and about your people and you can use that for your growth. You can get curious about it. You can start to think about ways to piece the puzzle pieces together. If you are seeing one specific trend in the support queue I bet you it's not, you're not on an island with it particularly if you have other customer facing teams. So you know, how can you then tie those pieces together in a way that it makes an interesting narrative for the company and that all comes down to relationship building and, just yeah, having your people in the org that you can talk to and you can lean on and validate your ideas with.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, no, that's true. That's it's validating the ideas. I love that you said that, because it's not something that people bring up a lot and the power that that has of empowering people to feel confident enough to explore these ideas is one of the greatest gifts that you can give your team as a leader to promote that and nurture that. Because how many times have we gotten in our own head or how many times have we started looking at things and thought, no, no, no, somebody tried this and it failed. But really that's not the case, or it was years ago.
Elyse Mankin:Right, right, well, and I think it also just comes down to prioritization too. Right there, there's an infinite number of things that we could be doing, but we do not have the time or, you know, the hands to do everything all at once. So, you know, having those people that you can validate your ideas against also just helps with prioritization of okay, are you seeing this thing over here? Is it as big of a problem or opportunity as I think it is? What do you think about this? Right, and it really kind of helps you narrow down what you could be focusing on at any given time. And then empowering your teams to go run after that thing is also just, yeah, very important.
Sarah Caminiti:Giving them the space to any autonomy to to just do the work yeah for sure, definitely the um, the space is needed, the space, the space to be able to think thoughtfully about things, the space to to really take ownership for things. Um, and and and just explore, because support is a very vast space and there's always a lot of other things that we could be doing. There's always a lot of talk about always use our help for something or something else we need to chase down. And, throughout your career, what have you found to be the ways that you allow this for your team, like, how do you make it happen?
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, Again, I think it gets back into like roles and responsibilities and just having those conversations around what is on your plate and how can I best support you. You know I want to always make sure that the role feels sustainable. You know we might go through heavy periods of, you know, just a lot going on and we got to do the things. But if we can roll out of them in a way that feels good to everyone, that is always my goal and it starts with just having a conversation with your team and with your people around what's on your plate. Are those really the most important things to be working on, or is there a way that I can help step in? Can we delegate Really just knowing what's happening for them, particularly in a cross-functional team?
Elyse Mankin:Again, they're in so many spaces that I am not so things come at your players from all of these different corners of the business. So for me it's just been very important to deeply understand what they're focusing on, where they want to focus and where they see opportunities, and then just creating that space for them and supporting them in it. If that comes down to saying, okay, we're going to say no to anything else that comes in for the next, you know, two weeks, you can go heads down on this, this project. You've got my support, I've got your back. Go for it. We'll kind of, you know, put on on, do not disturb for you for a little bit, and you know, just supporting them through that that's awesome, and you know just supporting them through.
Sarah Caminiti:That. That's awesome. That's awesome With your career and the trajectory that you've taken. Do you see yourself staying in a product focused support space, or are you thinking about ways that those skills that you've acquired could could work in in other areas?
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, I, they could definitely work in other areas. Yeah, they could definitely work in other areas. When I think about the trajectory of my career, I am really just so interested in that support intersection of all of the functions in a business and how can we leverage all of the things that support is amazing at to have that deeper impact. So product is my, is a passion. It always has been, and I, you know, again, when I started this role, I was like I want to be a product manager one day. I think that's, that would be lovely.
Elyse Mankin:And you know, as I built and scaled the team, I really realized sports, my home, that's where I want to be and it's just, it's really interesting to think about all of the ways that we can leverage those skills, leverage the relationships, leverage the data from your support queue to figure out how to make the customer experience better, and that's not isolated to product. That is certainly one of the bigger ones, especially in any product-led company. But there's a million and one ways that you can go about bettering things for your customers. And, like that's what gets me excited is how can we really leverage our team, leverage what we're hearing from customers, leverage the tools, the resources available to us to just make things better and to make you know, make positive impact for the people that we support and for the orgs that we work for.
Sarah Caminiti:Positive impact, that's yeah that's the best way to make that change. I mean, it's planting the seed, it's seeing what happens and it's allowing it to show itself in different ways. And it's obvious that you are able to do that by creating that sort of a space within the product connection of support. And it's not an easy task to bridge that, that space from support to product, because for so long they've been islands, that space from support to product because for so long they've been islands.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, yeah, yeah, really. And you know it's, it's. Yeah, I've been lucky to have product leaders who were nothing short of amazing in in supporting this bridge being built. And you know, it's just, it is mission, it is mission, mission critical, excuse me, I think, for you know, building a truly customer centric organization. There's just so much knowledge and so much information in your, in your support queue that if you're not extracting that, not only for your own use within support right but to all of the other places in the org that should be aware of what's happening Um, those kinds of golden nuggets just die on the vine and um, yeah, it's, it's just, yeah, it's, it's. It's an easy way to really instill customer centricity into your org by reporting out what you're hearing and building those bridges.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, that's true. I mean it's not. If you have the data, you know what to look for, you know what to you know how to ask those questions to the customer. If you need to get a little bit more information or put yourself in their shoes, then then it's. It's just communication after that and and and. Sometimes you're going to win, sometimes you're going to lose, but at least if you continue to have those conversations, there's going to be some wins that that make it all worthwhile.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, and you know, I think reporting back to the support team on that is equally critical, just kind of closing the loop right. You know to your point, sometimes what you're advocating for will get prioritized, sometimes it won't, but in those won't cases for me it's so important to understand the why and have those conversations with the other stakeholders to really get into the nitty gritty of okay, understood, we'll work on these things. You know, first and foremost, but what is the why? What are we hoping to gain from that? You know what's the progress on those projects and really kind of communicating it and closing that two way loop with your support team helps get buy in, helps them understand.
Elyse Mankin:You know this might be a really big pain for us but if we're thinking big picture and holistically throughout the organization, there's actually a couple of other even bigger pains that we think could move. You know very specific needles for the business and that's why we're going to prioritize, you know, project A and B over the one that we, you know, are really advocating for, not to say that we won't do it, it's just not quite the right time for it. And then keeping them in the loop of those conversations is an important and impactful way to just keep them connected to the areas of the business and, you know, reduce the like island feeling that the support queue can sometimes be feeling that the support cue can sometimes be yeah, no.
Sarah Caminiti:Having those conversations goes back to transparency. If you keep to yourself those details that you were able to grab from the other departments as to why this isn't going to be moving forward, and you just go back to them and say no, sorry, it's so dissatisfying, right, and it's, it's, it's, it's almost demoralizing of like, oh, but like we see these things so clearly, what do you mean?
Elyse Mankin:we're not gonna do it? Um, you know the the no without the why is? Uh, it's hard, it's just plain hard. And support, um, particularly when you, you hear, you know, out of all the conversations you're having every single day you might hear this five, 10, 20 times and to feel like, you know, support can be a bit of a black hole without that. Why, from the rest of the org?
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, yeah, I agree, so much it's. It can be really frustrating, and especially when you're you're in IC and you're you're, you think that you've you've really given everything that you can to drive this home and you're going back to those customers over and over and over again, it makes the days suck because there's nothing you could do. But having a leader like you, that makes it a point to not accept just an empty no and then bring that back to the team and say you know what? We gave all of the information that we could and we're going to revisit it in this amount of time Once, once we're able to finish these things, focus on these things. It wasn't a hard. No, let's take it as a pause. Even if it was a hard, no, always take it as a pause.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, again, nothing is ever written in stone, ever. You know you as a business, you can make a pivot every single day. There's, you know, it's just depending, depending on new information, um, and, and what is what is really happening with customers? And, um, yeah, it comes just down to that clear communication and, as you are getting new information, or maybe as urgency, uh, is increasing from the customer perspective, advocating for that and continuing to have the conversation.
Elyse Mankin:Um, you know, just because it was a no yesterday does not mean that it's a no a week from now, or with 50 more customers reporting it, or new information that you've discovered from a customer. It's really just about continuing to be transparent, continuing to beat on the drums that are important and are causing trends and causing customers to write in. Um, you'll get there eventually. You will. Uh, and then helping the team understand the why in the interim is important, and I also think it's important too to say, okay, well, maybe this one thing isn't being prioritized right this second, but are there other things that we could do? That still feel really good, um, and still feel like we are having that positive impact in the areas that we really want to be driving change.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, yeah, it's true. There's so many things that you can do within support. There's so many things that you can start to pick away at using resources, resources from other teams that that also are excited to help with with this in whatever way that they can. I think one of the biggest struggles of a lot of support teams have is that connection to the other departments and especially with product being kept in the loop through everything and understanding the why. Why did you only focus on this one piece when really the bigger picture is the only thing that matters? And, uh, adding yourself and your team to that whole journey of product development? Um, did that change drastically once you were able to to create the space?
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, um, you know I, I remember if this was my one of my like very first product launches at help scout is seven years ago or so. Um, we launched a new feature and customers were asking us questions about it that were like wait a minute what it does, what huh, and, like you know, no fault of anyone uh the communication richness wasn't there yet, right?
Elyse Mankin:And I think one of the really cool things that I count as one of the really big wins of this team is going through a really heavy pricing migration, a really complex one. That feels weird. There's all these different paths that customers could be on, weird. There's all these different paths that, like, customers could be on. But the support team in our like team huddle coming back to us and saying you know what this feels.
Elyse Mankin:This feels hard, we will get through it, but I feel so supported and I'm like I'm ready to talk to customers, I'm ready to have these conversations with all the resources you've given us.
Elyse Mankin:Like, I feel so empowered, I feel so ready to go, and all the conversations I'm having with customers have been actually pretty awesome through this very hard thing, because we've taken the time to really understand what is happening and what are the options available to customers.
Elyse Mankin:What are the options available to your support team in terms of escalation, just really taking the time to deeply empower them around something that could be challenging or just cause a lot of back and forth with customers. We also do guest stars with our product managers when we are launching anything like relatively large, and that's been a really cool way to connect the teams in a deeper way and just continue that relationship so they're able to come to our support team meetings. They talk about the why, they talk about you know, any things that they're still trying to validate within the product, or they ask questions of you know support team Like what do you think about this feature or this thing that we are still like trying to figure out? It's been a fun way to get our ICs involved in that conversation too, but in like a very like lightweight, scalable way.
Sarah Caminiti:I love that idea we love guest stars.
Elyse Mankin:Yes, yes, that's great.
Sarah Caminiti:That's great, yeah, just make them feel special too when they're coming to share the information. Wow, no, I really I'm going to take that with me. That one's a really good one, okay. So one final question about this is actually I've got two, but the first of the final is so if someone is thinking about this and they know they're seeing it everywhere, but they feel like they are so far behind because they didn't think about this stuff two years ago, what is the number one takeaway that someone can take with them back to their space and start to enter this world of a value add for support?
Elyse Mankin:One. It's never too late, never, ever, ever too late to start something like this. And then I think of. I think of two things. The first is is understanding your data. It all starts with the data and it all starts with really deeply understanding what is happening for your customers and how that's showing up in your support queue and being able to to quantify that Cause. If we don't understand, like, what the biggest things are, then how can we advocate for it Right? Or how can we even internally, how do we prioritize the things that could really have impact? And then I think about this concept of like control versus influence. So what can I directly control versus what can I influence?
Elyse Mankin:And kind of bucketing up your ideas or your initiatives or your projects into those two ideas can help people see progress a little bit more quickly, especially if it's something like directly within your control. Start with a quick win and see what progress you're able to make. Report that back to your team. It's a really fun way to show. Hey, I know we had to manually tag all of these conversations. All right, we had to go through some digging in with customers to really figure out what was happening here, but your work in this area was able to achieve these very tangible things for customers and for the business, and that can be a really fun conversation to have with your customer or with your team. And, yeah, just just show that you can make progress relatively quickly. So those would be my my tips.
Sarah Caminiti:Those are great. Those are great. I love that. At the core of everything that you're doing, Elyse, and everything that you were, you've built it is how can my team feel successful and empowered? Because that directly correlates to how that customer is going to feel that they're talking to. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So the real final question before before what has been your biggest proud win that you have had? Um could be in this department. Uh, it could be in anything, but just in in your career. What are? What's something that always stands out.
Elyse Mankin:Oh, I'm just so proud of the team honestly, um I it's been so much fun to see them all grow and into like their their horizontal moves as well. You know a couple of folks moved into engineering, into product, and it's been just honestly a joy to see them get to spread their wings and have like really meaningful impact on our support team, on our product teams, for our customers and then for themselves. Whether that is you know doing like a first conference talk or you know making like a really big career move, I'm just so freaking proud of them.
Sarah Caminiti:Now, that's a good leader right there.
Elyse Mankin:That's awesome.
Sarah Caminiti:I'm so happy for the folks that have been able to be blessed with you as their guide. Thank you, because this is special. You're special and I hope that anyone that listens to this is able to understand the impact that a supportive leader, a team focused leader, has on what's possible. Thank you, I appreciate that. So the real final question. I like to end all of these calls with a moment to ask the guest to tell me, either right now or heading into the future, what era do you see yourself in or heading towards?
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, for me. I am actively in my embracing change era.
Sarah Caminiti:All right, listeners, I'm not one to interrupt, especially right before someone is about to go into why they have just defined their era, but I have the best reason. You know how. Last week, I talked a little bit about the purpose of defining eras and realizing that great times, stressful times, terrible times they don't last forever. Well, we have a real life example.
Sarah Caminiti:When Elyse first recorded this episode back in May, she was in a very different stage in her life. Her era was very, very different, and I am so excited for her to share with you what this new era is for her and why that old era ended so that this new one could come in and take over. All right, let's get back into it to it. So, Elyse, when you were on here last time, you had a very different era because, like all eras, it came to an end, and now you are transitioning into this really new, exciting time in your life. And so I got to know now that it's been a couple of months and things have changed in the best possible way. What era are you in, Elyse?
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, and this is like very timely for the time of year and just all the new things happening in my life right now too. But like I just feel, like I'm in the like this is my year era, like my birthday was last weekend, I feel a new job and all the things that just uh, yeah, I feel so, just grateful and so excited to be where I'm at and, um, you know, I just can't wait to see you know what those next trip around the sun holds, and I think it's all going to be amazing things. And uh, yeah, I'm just, I'm pumped. Oh my gosh.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah Well, happy belated birthday. I didn't know it was just your birthday. Even better timing, you're right, like the way that all of it ended up playing out. Yeah, it's just like the perfect setup for you to be celebrating and kind of sit back and enjoy, like, all of this greatness that's around you and capitalize on it.
Elyse Mankin:It's all just very synchronous. There's a lot of good energy around right now, so, yeah, just feeling very, very grateful and, yeah, just so excited.
Sarah Caminiti:Well, when the universe is telling you something that you are on the right track, it shows you all of these different signs to tell you to keep going and keep doing it. And obviously, to tell you to keep going and keep doing it and obviously, this whole period of time since you were in this last era that ended you were on the right path because it ended, and now you are moving into this new era of just really exciting, wonderful things, and I'm so excited to see how it all develops and builds and just evolves, because you are going to be able to just own this and that's really cool. Thanks, perfect. Well, I'm so happy that we were able to have the opportunity to share a new era for you and yeah, I'm pumped.
Elyse Mankin:Yeah, thank you so much, thank you.
Sarah Caminiti:How cool is it that we got to see an era end and a new one begin, and a new one. That is so incredible for Elyse and I'm just so pumped for her. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode of Epochal Growth. I really hope that you're inspired by Alisa's insights on how to turn support data into powerful product innovations. It's all about understanding your customers and collaborating across teams and using data to drive meaningful change, and one of the best places to start is just to be curious.
Sarah Caminiti:If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe. Please also leave us a review and share it with others who might benefit. And if you're around on Friday September 13th, make sure that you've RSVP'd to the masterclass on this very topic with the wonderful Elyse Menken, but also OG podcast guest guest Sarah Betts and Everlane's TJ Stein. We are going to be deep, diving into metrics and the power that they hold, and I would love to see you all there. And remember, listeners, small things ignite change and you are capable of so much more than you realize. Thank you again for spending time with me. Thank you so much to Elyse Menken for trusting me on her very first podcast. I'm Sarah Kameniti. This is Epochal Growth. Have a great day.
