Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
Welcome to Epochal Growth, the podcast dedicated to transforming the way we lead by embodying the change we seek. Embracing the belief that we are the leaders we’ve been waiting for, our mission is to empower leaders to create impactful and lasting transformations in their organizations.
Hosted by industry expert Sarah Caminiti, each episode brings together visionary leaders and change-makers to explore the profound impact of inclusive and intentional leadership. Through engaging conversations and insightful discussions, we reveal how these approaches can revolutionize businesses and drive innovation.
At Epochal Growth, we are passionate about showcasing the transformative power of intentional actions and inclusive practices. Whether you are a seasoned entrepreneur, an aspiring leader, or someone passionate about business transformation, our podcast provides valuable insights and practical advice to help you lead differently and inspire growth.
Join us on this journey to unlock the potential for transformative business success. Tune in to Epochal Growth and start being the change you seek in leadership.
Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
Reclaiming Your Power: Navigating Leadership and Power Dynamics with Sarah Caminiti
Text me with feedback or questions!
What if you could reclaim your power and reshape the narrative of your life? Join me, Sarah Caminiti, as I celebrate a personal milestone on this episode of Epochal Growth. Reflecting on my journey to empowerment, I share how tuning into the universe's signals has guided me to reclaim control and value my self-worth. As a mother, every word and action becomes a seed for future growth, and I'm committed to cultivating a garden of empowerment. This chapter is a heartfelt testament to reclaiming control and celebrating self-worth.
Navigating power dynamics in leadership can be a daunting challenge, especially for women in tech and customer experience sectors. We'll discuss self-advocacy, the biases we confront, and the need for women to reclaim their power while leading authentically. Drawing from my personal experiences, this conversation underscores the importance of entering new roles with confidence and the powerful impact of recognizing your worth. By supporting each other in professional environments, we can dismantle the barriers of discrimination together.
Finally, we explore the subtle ways women often give away their power in professional settings, and the consequences of staying silent. In sectors like customer experience, women frequently feel undervalued and replaceable. I emphasize the importance of gathering extensive data to confidently assert influence and turn challenges into opportunities. This episode is a rallying cry to embrace empowerment, reject self-doubt, and claim the space we deserve. Let's recognize the extraordinary contributions of every listener as we build something incredible together. Join me on this transformative journey in Epochal Growth.
Make sure you've subscribed to Support Human's newsletter! I quote her piece: Happy National Power Rangers Day! - I think a lot about power, in the way that people who’ve been powerless often do. and strongly recommend you read it after you listen to the episode.
Don't forget to get your tickets to ElevateCX's events Sept 26 - 27 in Denver and Nov 8 in London - I will be there speaking, collaborating and hugging all who let me!
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
Hi listeners, I'm Sarah Caminiti and this is Epochal Growth. This is going to be a little bit different of an episode because I don't have a guest today. It's just going to be me. And it's because I've realized and it's because I've realized we're almost 20 episodes in and I've never shared what era I find myself in the universe is a funny thing, I've realized, and it's because I've realized we're almost 20 episodes in and I've never shared what era I find myself in.
Sarah Caminiti:The universe is a funny thing. I've realized this so much more in the last, however many months since I've been on this journey than ever. And one of the coolest things about the universe, when you start listening to it, is that when you're on the right path, when you're doing the right thing, when you're doing the right thing, when you're going outside of your comfort zone and you're not sure if any of this makes sense if you start listening to the universe, things start telling you to keep going, keep going, keep asking questions. It invites people into your life that provide context or inspiration. It opens doors for responsibilities or projects, initiatives, connections that never really seemed like they were in the cards and I say this in a not really in the cards, because it's not even something that was in your orbit as being something to think about like this podcast. I've always been a consumer of podcasts, but I never thought of myself as a potential podcast host and I'm still learning. But I'm here and I'm happy to be here and I'm happy that you're here. So, yes, this is the episode where I talk about my era and because of this universe this crazy universe it happened in a time where these people that I am now connected with are providing context and insight and confirmation that the things that I'm thinking about, that I'm going to be talking about in this episode, are valid and important and they need to be discussed. So why not here? Why not now? So what era am I in? I mean, I've been leaving you all on such a cliffhanger. I'm in the era of empowerment.
Sarah Caminiti:If you're a returning listener, you know that I ask the guests at the end of every episode to share with me what era they find themselves in or what era are they moving into. For those that are just starting to listen to Epochal Growth, welcome, and I'll share why. This is something that I ask, and it's because the word epochal is the change or the transformative event that ignites a new era. It's not just a Taylor Swift reference, I promise, but with these eras, I think it's important because it reminds ourselves that what has happened, what is happening and what is going to happen, it's all temporary. Whether things are difficult or incredible or uncertain, tomorrow could be completely different. When you give yourself the opportunity to reflect on these eras that either you're in or you've survived, you provide yourself this opportunity to think about what it is that we truly do have control of, and that's what we're taking away. That's how we're defining these eras and the impact that they have on our lives. And when we start thinking about control, we have to think about power. It's all closely related to power dynamics, because just about every interaction that we have, whether we realize it or not, we're navigating power dynamics.
Sarah Caminiti:When I think back on where I've been and where I came from, I see how power, or the lack thereof, shaped so many of my experiences. I used to just hand out my power like candy. I gave too much of it to others. I let too many people define my worth. Slowly, I started to figure out how to filter this feedback so that I could focus on what truly helps me grow instead of letting this noise dictate my path and my worth. Noise is an interesting thing. Earth Noise is an interesting thing. It usually happens early in your life and the people that are providing this noise don't realize that it's planting seeds. These seeds that impact you for years and years. Now that I'm a mom, I think about what it is that my actions are doing and my words are doing and the weight of them, and if they're going to be planting seeds that are good seeds or bad seeds, or temperamental seeds and I have to be cognizant of that all the time. And since I'm thinking a lot about seeds, I think about the seeds that were planted in me, because they shape our perceptions.
Sarah Caminiti:I grew up believing that I had to be thankful just to be in the presence of powerful people, that it was my responsibility to make things right when they treated me poorly and that their approval was something that I needed to earn and that that approval carried more weight than just about anything. That seed grew and it led me to downplay my achievements and hesitate to take up space Something I kick myself about, but look back on and want to hug the person that I was 10 years ago, seven years ago. Five years ago is that I didn't negotiate my salary. Ever I didn't take credit for my work in a way that was celebratory. I let others define what I was worth and I believed them. I was content to stay quiet, and in doing so I didn't even realize that I was cementing my own limitations.
Sarah Caminiti:This wasn't just in my professional life, it was in my personal life too. I was trying to navigate life by others' standards of success, but I was having this internal battle because there was something inside of me that just kept pushing and pushing against this, but I didn't know what to do with that. It took me a long time to really be able to stop and listen to what it was that my insides were screaming about for so long. Slowly, it started to chip away. There would be little things that would happen that would either make me realize I had been naive going into certain situations, and I learned not to be naive the next time I found myself in those situations. There were things that happened that in the moment, I really beat myself up about. Maybe even for years I beat myself up about it, but then, finally, I was able to look back on it and realize that had nothing to do with me. That was the other person. I'll give you two examples of situations that many of us have found ourselves in Trying to get a promotion and not getting the promotion Because they said that it would take too much work to replace you.
Sarah Caminiti:Okay, that was unexpected. At first I was proud All right, they're actually acknowledging my work. Then I was like wait a second, they're acknowledging my work, but they're not giving me a raise and they're not giving a promotion, nor are they giving me a path to a promotion. I just have to sit here. And so I decided to be proactive and I wrote a guide for the person that would replace me, so that it wouldn't be a lot of work, and that felt really good. I started to think about the long game. I started to think about how I could prepare myself for these difficult conversations in the future.
Sarah Caminiti:A handful of years after that promotion situation, I was grossly underpaid Folks in CX. We all know what that feels like. I took what I learned from that promotion situation and I came prepared. I researched, I researched local salary bands, I researched job descriptions any curveball I was prepared for. So I went out for lunch with my boss and I gave him the binder that I created, color coded of course, that laid out all of the reasons why I need to be making more money for the work that I'm doing, and he didn't ask questions. All of those curveballs I prepared myself for did not work come into play. He just laughed at me and told me no, okay.
Sarah Caminiti:Well, now I am reminded that power is defined by those that hold it. I did not have control of that situation. There was nothing I could have prepared to change the outcome of that situation. I knew then that I needed to reclaim my power and lead on my own terms, and so I started looking for the next space. Then the next space came, and I was so excited. I was so proud of myself for actually being able to achieve what I knew I could achieve. I was so excited I didn't read the fine print, I didn't think twice about the strange benefits package that existed or didn't exist, however you want to phrase it and I entered the space carefully. I was so grateful, I was so eager to please. I didn't want to ruffle feathers, and I was never taken seriously. I was a leader, I was an executive, I was an executive, but I really wasn't. And now I see that a lot of that was in my control and how I entered the space.
Sarah Caminiti:But even through all of this, I still didn't allow myself to really feel like what I was feeling was valid. I figured I was probably just overreacting. This is normal. I've never been in one of these situations. It's normal. I just have to power through it. I have to try different things. I have to bend over backwards. I have to show them what happens when you're curious, when you don't make assumptions, when you build inclusive teams. And I did that for years and nothing changed. And then one day I just happened to vent about what I was going through to someone and they validated every single feeling that I had. I no longer felt crazy, I no longer felt ungrateful, I felt heard, I felt seen and I felt empowered to change the situation that I was in.
Sarah Caminiti:We are all going to find ourselves in situations where maybe on paper, things should be great. But if they don't feel great anymore and you've tried your best and it still hasn't changed, then you should feel really good about looking elsewhere. You don't have to stay in those situations where you're not respected, there's no growth, you're not included in conversations You're not allowed to take up the space that you deserve. So I entered into the wild job market and I had to have these job interviews where I was confident. I had to talk about my accomplishments. I had to remind myself over and over again why I know I am very good at what I do. I spent time reflecting and I wrote everything into some sort of Jerry Maguire style manuscript.
Sarah Caminiti:I figured out how to articulate my thoughts in a way that came across probably a little bit less manic than it did at first, but I still wasn't loud, I was still very quiet, I was connecting with people quietly, but these connections, these conversations, allowed me to start seeing trends and they allowed me to realize that the next time I need to enter into my next role, proud and confident and empowered, because I deserve to enter a space that way and holy cow listeners I mean not to jump the gun here, but when you advocate for yourself, when you allow yourself to advocate for yourself and do it confidently and survive it, it is a pretty great feeling. It is a pretty great feeling because now you're entering into this new role where you've already told them that you know your value, you know what you're worth. No one else is going to tell you what your worth is. You've defined it and you own it. It's yours. That's powerful. You really only get one shot with that with a job which is a bummer, but when you do it, you're able to enter into these spaces and speak up faster, be firm and own your success, and that is a very, very powerful and wonderful feeling.
Sarah Caminiti:Getting to this point was a journey. I'm 36, and it all kind of started to click last year, but really didn't happen until I was forced into this public space. And I needed to be forced into this public space. If I just continued to dip my toes into different things and then scurry back because I didn't want to rock the boat, I didn't want to offend anyone that I knew in the fourth grade, I didn't want to. I didn't want to fail However, failure is defined None of this would be happening. But when I started to have these conversations and I started to notice a trend that so many of us were feeling the same way, so many of us were not advocating for ourselves, so many of us did not feel powerful when we deserve to feel powerful. I felt powerful enough to continue to talk about it. And now bias and discrimination and crap happens on so many levels, to so many people in different ways, and what I'm talking about, what I'm going to talk about is my lived experience. I am a woman in leadership in the tech space and I am also a leader in the customer experience space, and I am so excited to be in a position where I can empower other women and other CX professionals to lead the way that they want to lead, to build teams the way that they know is the right way to build teams and to celebrate themselves as much as they possibly can.
Sarah Caminiti:Women have had those seeds planted in them from a very, very early age that we have to earn the space that we occupy, and the criteria for earning it is constantly changing. Meanwhile, the men around us are granted this space automatically. They don't even think about it. We find ourselves in these situations where we intercompetently, we assert our power in a way that is respectful. We check all the boxes, we do our due diligence so that we make sure we don't offend anybody, and we still offend people how, they'll never tell us, but we still offend them Because there are words that are thrown around about women very easily and they are so heavy, but also so vague, difficult, aggressive, demanding, controlling, angry, crazy Bitch.
Sarah Caminiti:Difficult, aggressive, demanding, controlling, angry, crazy bitch. And usually, when those words are expressed about a woman in a leadership role, she's then told that she needs to work on how she communicates often without context, but still it's her responsibility to figure it out. And isn't it funny how the result of this ambiguous accusation is that the woman now has to think harder than she already is about not being aggressive, not being difficult, up less space. She's probably a little less competent in what she's saying, she's a little quieter, she doesn't speak up as quickly or she looks around her and hopes that someone else chimes in so that she can say yeah, I totally agree. And she gives away her power each time, whether she realizes it or not.
Sarah Caminiti:Anytime you ask for help, anytime you throw out an idea in some way, shape or form, you are giving away a little bit of your power. If you are not considered an equal in the first place, you're going to have those men that are quick to save you if someone's speaking over you or you're having a hard time being heard, and then the men are celebrated for being a champion of a woman who was unable to assert herself in the situation in the same way that he was then successful. And now you owe the man something because he saved you. Or when a man repeats the same point that you've been trying to make, but this time he's not labeled aggressive, he's praised. And then you have the women that also use these same words against one another. And when you really think about it, it's understandable, because remember those seeds. Those seeds also told us that there's only room for one of us. So if you are that one woman in the room, it means there are others that didn't get the chance and there's a line of women that are waiting to take your place.
Sarah Caminiti:Then you have the others that are trying to figure out how to climb the ladder, and it's so disheartening to see women in their 30s or older who are solid in their careers, still believing that it's a good thing if their boss treats them like a careers, still believing that it's a good thing if their boss treats them like a daughter, thinking that it's the only way to be heard or seen. But the reality is, this dynamic ensures that you're never going to be taken seriously. You're never going to be seen as equals. You will always be looked down upon, because that is the power dynamic that was created. And in all of this, too many women can't even bring themselves to say out loud that this is complete bullshit. They stay silent because they don't want to risk being labeled. They don't want to risk jeopardizing the progress that they've made over the years to be respected.
Sarah Caminiti:But the quieter that we remain, the more power we are giving to the people that are trying to make sure that we are not powerful. At the very beginning, I mentioned the universe working in interesting ways, and one of those ways was seeing Stephanie Lundberg, with Support Human Newsletter, publish a wonderful piece about power dynamics, and she defined it in such a wonderful way, so much better than my ramblings ever could, she said. I think what powerful people are really afraid of is that those other people will somehow realize that they are not in fact as powerless as they first appear. If we stay quiet, how is anyone going to realize that we are more powerful than we give ourselves credit for? If we think that we're going to be replaced? If we think that we are going to be labeled as difficult, we're going to be told that we're negative or we complain. Why would we say anything. We say it because if we don't, nothing changes.
Sarah Caminiti:This extends also to the professionals in the CX community. We have been told for years that anyone could do our job. We're now being told that AI could do our job so much better than we ever could. What we are able to do is not a skill that we're replaceable, that we should be grateful to be invited to a conversation about product development. We should be grateful that we still have a job. If we said anything in opposition to anyone that held any level of power, they already told us that we were just going to be replaced. So why would we rock the boat? So what do we do? Take on more work? We think it's a visibility issue. We think that we aren't articulating the results well enough. We keep saying yes and nothing changes. And then what? We're so busy and we're so overwhelmed that we can't see what we're accomplishing. We can't even recognize how little the returns are. We lead quietly.
Sarah Caminiti:Something that I have learned as a leader in the CX space is just like being prepared for those salary conversations. Gives you that sense of empowerment. The same applies to CX data an obnoxious amount of data, because you are able to play the long game on levels that you didn't even really think about. To play the long game on levels that you didn't even really think about. If you start extracting way too much data as soon as you possibly can, then you're going to be able to insert yourself into these conversations much more confidently. You are going to have the receipts. You're going to have months of receipts. You're going to be noticing trends that impact product development in ways that no one ever thought about. And it's not to have an I told you so moment, it's not to point fingers, but you're going to be able to know that you are doing everything that you can to be successful. Be successful. You are saying the things that you need to say. You are collecting the data that you need to collect. You are asking questions. You're being curious. You're not making assumptions and then at the end, if it doesn't work out, if they continue to not ask you for the information that would better help develop a product, it had nothing to do with you. You did what you needed to do. Be proud of yourself and maybe start looking for another job.
Sarah Caminiti:It is this CX community that I have been able to find my voice. What started as answering a simple question in one of these support communities turned into an interview, and that interview turned into being asked to join podcasts. It turned into being introduced to people that were excited to talk to me about things that were equally as passionate as I am about making a difference, and it turned into this podcast. When I finally embraced empowerment and how it could help others, everything changed. I stopped letting self-doubt and external noise dictate my path. I stopped letting those replays of past conversations take up brain space. The weight was lifted off of my shoulders because I finally was able to understand how I can own my own success, how I can be proud of the work that I produce and the impact that I can have on others.
Sarah Caminiti:But it ends there. So, listeners, you're thinking about your place in your professional world and you're thinking about how do I even do this? How do I even start to think about owning my power, or thinking about power, or questioning power, or just feeling empowered? And I get it. I totally get it. But try something. Be a little bit more curious. If you receive an answer that doesn't sit right, ask questions. Try to understand why. If you understand why, then you can figure out how to do it differently next time. Another way is when you enter into a conversation, don't make assumptions. Remember that that's a person on the other side and that person is trying to figure their own stuff out. They're probably not trying to hurt you or mess up your job or your career or your project or your team. So be empathetic and, again, be curious.
Sarah Caminiti:You never know what you're going to find out and slowly, starting to put yourself into those situations where you want to know more about a situation, about a person, you'll start to understand the boundary lines, you'll start to be able to define your own boundary lines and you'll start to learn more about the space that you are already taking up. And, before you know it, you're going to be looking around and you're going to be just feeling a little bit more confident because you understand things a little bit differently. You've built relationships that aren't based in trying to achieve something. It's just based in an understanding that you're both trying to figure this out too, and it'll take time and it'll be a slow crawl. But just keep asking why? See what happens when you ask why? And sometimes those answers are going to suck, and then you may start asking yourself why am I here? What's the point? And then you may start asking yourself why am I here? What's the point? What am I doing? And that's okay too, because through that, you're starting to define your own boundaries and you're starting to define your best.
Sarah Caminiti:Those founders that were inclusive and transparent at the beginning, that suddenly start closing the door on everything and become everything that they swore they would never be, they're probably really scared that they're losing their power, so they're hoarding their power and they don't know what else to do. The women that are being way more competitive than they need to don't realize what can happen if they just start talking to each other. Leaders that know that you can be kind and you can be inclusive and you can be transparent and achieve incredible things need to realize that so many other leaders are doing the same thing and they are successful in it. It is so scary to try things especially when it's related to our livelihood, like our careers are without knowing that the results are guaranteed to be successful, especially when you've been told so many times that if you fail, you'll be replaced. But, listeners, I am asking you to trust yourself, find a community, be vulnerable and ask questions. End your day proud of what you gave to the world, what you gave to your team or what you gave to your customers, and there's going to be days that you fail. Learn something from that. That's the best you can do. You don't owe your job anything more than what is on your job description, and your job does not owe you anything other than paying you for doing what is on that job description. If you do not feel respected, if you don't feel like you are able to reach your full potential, if you feel like you have checked all of your boxes and it's not going anywhere, there is a place where you will find what you need.
Sarah Caminiti:Power dynamics are all around us. We have so little control over how others are going to react, how they are going to choose to move forward with different things, but what we can control is ourselves and how we react to things and how we internalize things and how we learn from things and also how we share things. I am now in an era where I proudly take up space, I celebrate my values, I lead with conviction and I'm notessing my worth. Empowerment isn't just about lifting myself up. I'm able to advocate for others and lift them up as well. That's the great thing about this podcast. Every chance I get, I celebrate the people that are around me and I want them to walk away from our conversations feeling proud, take some of that weight of responsibility that wasn't supposed to be theirs to begin with off of their shoulders. It's incredible to see how these small, seemingly insignificant moments have built up to this point where I can help others find their own empowerment.
Sarah Caminiti:Empowerment is owning your own success and it's advocating for yourself. Over the years, I've built this toolbox of skills to prepare and to be clear about my intentions and to act with respect, but when those in power make decisions, I know that I've done my part and that's all that I can control. I have a lofty dream for this era, and it's lofty for a reason. If I diminish this dream to something smaller, then I'm just diminishing myself. I'm diminishing the women that are around me. I'm diminishing the potential of those that are coming up after me. I'm diminishing the CX community. I'm diminishing what we're capable of.
Sarah Caminiti:It's time to remind people of their worth and encourage them to be a little bit louder and a little bit bolder. I don't want the next generation of professionals or those that are pivoting, my kids, when they start looking for roles, to feel as constrained as I did, because we're capable of so much more than we are often led to believe. I'm sick of it. When I stopped listening to the noise and I trusted myself, doors opened. More people started asking me to speak up, validating my approach to leadership or to customer experience. This journey wasn't something that I'd ever planned, but it's exactly where I'm supposed to be. I've spent my career supporting others and now I see it's brought me here. Yeah, I'm juggling a lot. Yep, I'm dropping some balls every now and then, but I am so excited. This is the most epochal time of my life.
Sarah Caminiti:Listeners, every single one of you deserves to be recognized. You deserve to be celebrated and valued for your contributions. You have earned your space, whether you believe it or not. Lean into your community. Lean into places like Elevate CX, if you're part of the CX community, because they will remind you that you have earned this space. If we work together, we're going to create something that's so incredible. So let's stop justifying why we don't deserve more and just start claiming it. Use your voice, take up space, celebrate what you bring to the table. This is my era of empowerment, and I invite you to step into yours, because together we're going to build something that's truly extraordinary. I am so happy to be here and I am so thrilled that you're here with me. I'm Sarah Caminiti. This is Epochal Growth. I can't wait to see you soon.
