Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
Welcome to Epochal Growth, the podcast dedicated to transforming the way we lead by embodying the change we seek. Embracing the belief that we are the leaders we’ve been waiting for, our mission is to empower leaders to create impactful and lasting transformations in their organizations.
Hosted by industry expert Sarah Caminiti, each episode brings together visionary leaders and change-makers to explore the profound impact of inclusive and intentional leadership. Through engaging conversations and insightful discussions, we reveal how these approaches can revolutionize businesses and drive innovation.
At Epochal Growth, we are passionate about showcasing the transformative power of intentional actions and inclusive practices. Whether you are a seasoned entrepreneur, an aspiring leader, or someone passionate about business transformation, our podcast provides valuable insights and practical advice to help you lead differently and inspire growth.
Join us on this journey to unlock the potential for transformative business success. Tune in to Epochal Growth and start being the change you seek in leadership.
Epochal Growth | Empowering Leaders to Create Transformative Change
Master Global Success: Expert Tips on Localization, Translation, AI, and Cultural Sensitivity with Markus Seebauer
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BUY YOUR TICKETS TO DENVER ELEVATECX HERE
Unlock the keys to global business success with insights from Markus Seebauer, founder of Gateway Translations. We explore the critical role of localization and translation in today's international marketplace, revealing how businesses can adapt their products and services for diverse markets without losing their brand identity. Markus uncovers common pitfalls in global strategies, the necessity of continuously updating localized content, and the dire consequences of neglecting this upkeep.
He also shares groundbreaking ways to leverage AI to create genuine value and elevate customer experiences—essential know-how for both startups and established enterprises.
Discover the intricacies of maintaining accurate and culturally sensitive translations for technical products. Our discussion emphasizes the paramount importance of human oversight to avoid translation errors and offensive content that AI alone could miss. We delve into cultural nuances, such as negative historical connotations of certain words in German and regional differences in Spanish, underscoring the indispensable role of professional translators. Markus shares real-world examples and personal experiences that highlight the essential investment in proper translation and localization to avert potential PR disasters.
Navigate the complexities of global customer support with our expert guest as we tackle the challenges of providing effective assistance in international markets. From dealing with colloquial language to the limitations of automated translation tools, Markus offers invaluable insights and real-world anecdotes. We explore outsourcing as a viable solution for startups lacking a full-time multilingual team and stress the importance of cultural understanding to enhance the customer experience. Tune in for practical advice on building brand ambassadors through cultural awareness and improving global product support.
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
Happy Epochal Growth Tuesday listeners. I'm Sarah Caminiti and we're going to unlock the secrets to transformative business strategies and leadership, and I am so happy that you're here. Today's episode is all about standing out in an increasingly global marketplace. We have Markus Seebauer with us. He is the founder of Gateway Translations. He's a leading expert in localization and translations. Markus has a wealth of experience helping companies navigate the challenges of expanding into new markets while maintaining their identity. Here at Epochal Growth, we talk a lot about being a differentiator being a differentiator in the CX space or how we lead. What I was really excited to take away from my conversation with Markus was looking at being a differentiator by being respectful of who it is that you're talking to and where they are in the world.
Sarah Caminiti:Markus sheds light on the critical role of localization and how businesses can avoid common pitfalls when translating their products and their services, and what it means to continuously upkeep this information, and what happens if you don't. We discuss real world examples of companies that have either succeeded or struggled with their global strategies, including insights on how they can improve their customer support and adapt to diverse markets. It's not just about translations. It's not just about customer support. It's also about how we use these advancements in AI and how they're reshaping the landscape. Markus shares his thoughts on leveraging AI not just for cost saving, but for creating genuine value and enhancing customer experiences. Whether you're a startup looking to break into international markets or you're a seasoned business aiming to refine your global strategy, this episode is going to teach you how to approach this thoughtfully. All right, listeners. Grab your headphones, turn up the volume if you're in your car, get ready to discover how you're going to position yourself in your business as a true leader in the global arena. Before I actually hit the play button for the episode with Markus to begin, I do have to ask how many of you still need to purchase tickets to Denver for the Elevate CX event. That is, September 26th and 27th in Denver.
Sarah Caminiti:Elevate CX is having a conference with industry experts Craig Stoss, Andrew Rios, Sarah Hatter, Kat Gaines I mean, I could just keep going and going and going. This is not an event you want to miss. Another event you don't want to miss London, November 8th. Please get your tickets. If you plan on getting on a plane and going across the ocean to get there awesome, so pumped to meet you, really love your dedication and bring that energy.
Sarah Caminiti:But if you're in London, if you're in England the UK if you're in Europe, make sure you're getting your tickets. Make sure you're getting tickets for your team too. If you're in a leadership position, show them that you really do want them to be as successful as possible and empower them to be change makers in the CX space by getting them to this event. They are all going to sell out. I can assure you of that. Now I'm done, I promise let's get going. I'm Sarah Caminiti. You're listening to Epochal Growth. This is episode 15. And we have a very special guest, Markus Seebauer. You're always somewhere just enjoying the world.
Markus Seebauer:Well, you're always somewhere just enjoying the world. Yes, I think it's amazing that we have the opportunity to work from where it works best for us. Not everyone has that. I mean, you've heard in the news and from our peers, right, how people have to come back to the office. Yeah, I just feel that. Yeah, it's a big opportunity to be in a place you're happy, where you're productive, and there are always ways to get a new perspective, to meet people. But the downside is that now people listen to less podcasts.
Sarah Caminiti:Well, yes, yes, they do, or they listen to more because they're able to listen to them while they're working. I bet, I bet it's just you can't when you're able to make your day so efficient, when you work in your own space and have control over what you're doing with your time aside from people like you know asking you for meetings and that sort of thing. But all that aside, to then have to sit in a car and not be able to be productive, really like immerse yourself in anything that you're listening to, because you have to pay attention to the road, be mindful of every single thing that is around you, because drivers are nuts and you never know what's going to happen. It takes so much brain, space and energy and I'm always a little bit drained when I get out of the car.
Markus Seebauer:Yes, I'm really not into driving. I got my driving license when I was 18 and, uh, now I haven't driven the car for for 15 years. And then, um, when I was in in germany, I tried to get into my mom's car and, um, then I I told her oh wow, this is really complicated. Just to get out of the drive, they like on the on the left and right like their cars, and then there's like a bus coming and a rather narrow road like, and then she said, yeah, usually people park even closer.
Sarah Caminiti:Oh, yeah, yeah, no, it's crazy, it's and it's and it's just non-stop it's. Uh, my husband got his driver's license right before my son was born. He was in his 30s and had never needed to drive. And then it kind of got to that point where it was like, okay, no, you, really you do need to drive, because what if I go into labor? We don't want to have to take like an Uber or something like that.
Sarah Caminiti:And then it was interesting to see from me, who had been doing it for years, to someone who was very capable but it was completely foreign to them how they adapted and learned and found different ways to get comfortable with certain things. I notice, you know, takes different routes than I would take, because he feels more comfortable going in these different directions and which, oddly, is a nice segue into a lot of the work that you're doing of understanding how people learn and how they learn best, because, especially as you get older, you do learn differently than when you're younger and you have to be cognizant of that when you're younger and you have to be cognizant of that.
Markus Seebauer:Yes, I have definitely noticed that for myself and I think also in customer success, customer support I think there are many people who like to help, but also they don't like to be always on in meetings. Yeah, always on in meetings For me. I don't like this when I get tagged on Slack and I like to be focused and have my own pace and do some deep thinking.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, no, I definitely understand that. It is interesting when you have your watch that can notify you about certain things, and you've got your, your ticketing system, and you've got your email, you have your slack, you have your regular text message, you have linkedin now and you've got all these different things that tell you that something is urgent. And nothing is usually urgent. But you have to then assess whether or not it's urgent because it's pushed in front of your face, and so you're forced to triage your life at all times.
Markus Seebauer:Yes, I think all these interruptions and context switches. I think that's also a reason why people are looking at different ways to get support and there are also different personality types when it comes to software. B2B software is usually complex. Many people they like to go to a knowledge base and quickly look this up. They feel this is more efficient than writing an email where they don't know how long it takes. And then the quality of the answer.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, no, that is one of the most valid points. I think right there, Markus, that it's something that I talk about all the time with my team or with others, and when they're trying to navigate moving into a support role, especially a leadership role, you have to put yourself in the customer's position of right now they're unable to do their job, like there's something happened that prevented them from being able to continue successfully on their own. And if they get to the point where they feel like the only option is to reach out, there's so much vulnerability in that and there's so much unknown in that, because first, you don't know how long it's going to take, you don't know if you explain the situation in a way that will actually articulate what's going on.
Sarah Caminiti:You don't know what their requirements are. You don't know what language they speak. This could be an international company and there could be a barrier there where you have to explain things in a different way. It's a struggle. It's a struggle and I agree that the knowledge bases are always the spot that I feel you have to start. You have to just start building.
Sarah Caminiti:Every single time a customer asks you a question, you have to think is this documented anywhere, whether it be internally, externally or both, depending on the situation and how you want to go about it. But you have to give folks the option at least to be self-sufficient, and then they can decide if they need more, rather than you forcing them to never become self-sufficient.
Markus Seebauer:Right Just yesterday on our team call, we had something come up where we had a software that was recently updated, I think, and then this feature was not documented in the technical documentation yet. So it was quite stressful, I think, for our team. They were already busy with a lot of projects despite the summer and the software usually works quite well. So I think that also shapes a little bit how we look at this as oh like they're a little bit unorganized. It's just like a micro impression, Like we managed that in this case Could have been something Better.
Sarah Caminiti:No, that's a really interesting point and I'd love to know what you think that the customer takes away in terms of how a company feels about them and their use of the software when they decide to release something without covering all of the bases
Markus Seebauer:It's common and for me as someone who's originally from Germany, then when sometimes potential customers they approach us, they want to translate their knowledge base and then the first thing I look at that German knowledge base, it's it's a pretty big market with almost 100 million people in the German-speaking countries and the impression is totally different. So that's like my first impression and the customer journey is always different for people, right? So often it's really outdated and then there are much less articles. And then they tell me, oh yes, like, um, the, the translated knowledge bases like they are not up to date. But that's my first touch point, you know and that and and why would I check if there's an english one? That is better. I just assume everything is like that, right?
Sarah Caminiti:right, right, no, it's. It tells the story of how they feel about your business. It's. We don't care enough to make it a point to find time to make sure that this information is accurate. We we decided to use our resources elsewhere, and now those resources are being spent on explaining why you aren't having this in a German translation up to date, or now you have to create a maintenance schedule or do a whole overhaul of things because of it, and it just would have been so much easier if you would have done it the first time.
Markus Seebauer:Yeah, I think it's also a lot of work to keep this up to date and many companies they're not aware of that or they they use quite outdated ways where they export files manually, send that to a translation company, or they they have internal people who are busy and and things get delayed, especially when then there's a there's a bigger update, when it's maybe a big release for their product, and then the knowledge base update is also pretty big.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, no, it's a huge undertaking. Any sort of knowledge base maintenance is a huge undertaking, because not only do you have to maintain things as different products move and shift and grow and evolve over time, but then you also have to think about what are the things that exist that are connected to it in ways that you didn't realize that you then also have to update and make sure that you're explaining correctly, because people are still going to be using it in the other ways and they're going to still need to have accurate information yeah, and now with the whole ai hype, um, things got even more challenging, especially with knowledge basis.
Markus Seebauer:so much is just raw AI where, um, the the global customer experience is really not good For any kind of technical product, anything specific. Usually that is quite a disaster in terms of what comes out from ChatGPT or from SQL or whatever, if no proper human review is there, and even with the nice prompts and sophisticated prompts it's just not getting there.
Sarah Caminiti:No, it's. You have to hire an entire team to ensure the accuracy of the information you're extracting from AI in forever, like that's not really ever going to go anywhere. Because the second you start trusting something that is a machine to either create documentation or talk to your customers or break something down, instead of actually having somebody do it themselves with the context that is required, then you start blindly sending information that could be false and then it's learning that it's correct and it's just then going to take that and morph that down the road. A big awakening with that in general, and also with translations.
Markus Seebauer:And now I see many tech companies. They often approach things in a tech way, just looking for tech solution. They think, okay, we use four different AI, maybe like Chachi and Gemini, and then we run prompts to check for the tone, for the terminology, and then we cross-check that. But we tested that Even for languages where it's less challenging, like, let's say, German, when we go to Chinese or Vietnamese or whatever, then that's even much less reliable.
Sarah Caminiti:I bet yeah, because it's not like these AI softwares are going to say we're not 100% sure. If this is accurate, can we have someone please proofread this? 100% sure, if this is accurate? Can we have someone please proofread this? They're going to send their best guess of the closest thing to what it is. They're trying to translate and it could be totally wrong.
Markus Seebauer:Yeah, like there are a lot of false positives and, yeah, translators get really offended when you use that because it's not good enough. So they feel that, yeah, and it's somehow like an amateur move to use that right.
Sarah Caminiti:Very much, very much. Well, they're not taking ownership on the success of it. They're just putting it into a machine and doing it the easy way and not making sure that it actually is being respectful of the culture and the language and the people that understand the context of these words and how they're supposed to be put together. You go to school and you become an expert in this field for a very specific reason because you understand it completely.
Markus Seebauer:Yeah, it's good that you mentioned these cultural aspects. In many languages that's an issue, for example, in German, like a really big tech company I don't want to name them and also mentioned these cultural aspects in in many languages. That's an issue, for example, in Germany, like a really big tech company I don't want to name them and also it's not matter it. Um, they have like the word is technically correct and that's even it's on the company page and even I told them and I think they they didn't get it so they didn't change it because it's a little bit challenging to understand.
Markus Seebauer:So in German we have words that are correct, but when anyone in Germany hears that, you immediately think about national socialism and and like these. These are kind of burned words like you. You just you, just you don't use them. Yeah.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah.
Markus Seebauer:But they're technically correct German words yeah, so in that case it was even on the company page where they talked about diversity and inclusion. So things like that have a very negative connotation in Germany and in Spanish. Many words are insults in the specific locales, as we call it, because Spanish is different. In Mexico, Argentina, people understand it, but many words are an insult in another Spanish-speaking country. So with these words in German, yeah, that's really a big deal, and something like that on TikTok, that could really be a big PR disaster.
Sarah Caminiti:Oh yeah, oh yeah. That sort of thing spreads. Once you spot it, it's a red flag and you move on. But then you probably also say to your friend or your colleague did you see that they used this on their website? Like, what do you think they were thinking? Or what do you think they meant by this? Was there some weird subliminal messaging that they're trying to do in there? Subliminal messaging that they're trying to do in there? And? And really it was just a careless mistake, which I don't even know if that's that much better, because they're not taking the time to put the care into what they're putting out into the world.
Markus Seebauer:So yes, and to me it's incredible that even when I told them, then after six months I checked again and nothing, nothing changed.
Sarah Caminiti:That's insane, that's insane.
Sarah Caminiti:So, Markus, just so that listeners understand why we are talking about this, and uh and your experience, can you share like a little intro about the work that you do and and and who you are?
Markus Seebauer:um, I studied computer science, so I come from the tech side, and when I went to the university I went to India for six months and the software company made a big project where they migrated software and then they asked for my help with translations.
Markus Seebauer:So that's how I got into that industry
Sarah Caminiti:And you loved it when they asked you to do it?
Markus Seebauer:It just felt like something that you were supposed to continue to pursue. Then, when I graduated, I saw the need and the demand for that and started this business. So now it has been 12 years and we have worked with really big clients like GitHub and helped them with their knowledge bases.
Sarah Caminiti:That whole space has really evolved in over a decade, knowledge bases now, like the interaction that comes into play or the different types of media and it is. It is like it's its own little company inside all of these companies to to do it really, to do it well and to do it completely yes, and sometimes we struggled because we got content that was not written in proper English so many people are not aware of.
Markus Seebauer:When you use AI, it can only be as good as the input. So with machine translation, when it's not proper English grammar and the same for other languages you translate from, then the translation is really bad.
Sarah Caminiti:Wow, yeah. So how do those conversations go with companies when you're looking through their knowledge bases, you're translating their knowledge bases and you're finding that this was obviously not written by a person or this content is not put together in a way that really reflects the type of company that you're trying to to show the world that you are. How do you have those conversations?
Markus Seebauer:yeah, I think many companies. They are already aware of it and then they just want to launch the translation and and then we have this thing right, like where this gets into the translation memory, and we need to make sure that we don't use any improper data in the future. I think usually the challenge is there is this gap between, let's say, someone who manages the knowledge base and the person who is maybe the head of knowledge base, like the head of knowledge management, and then there are executives higher up who think everything can be done with AI and everything needs to be like super cost, efficient and to explain, to integrate the workflows. That is all a challenge and we help companies a lot with that.
Sarah Caminiti:Wow, yeah, that must have been, especially over the past few years, really wild to see the quality of the content that you're having to work with sometimes blossom because they're given a space to really just go to town and do what they know the customer needs. But then also those companies that choose to go in the other direction and, uh, and you're kind of left in the middle to figure out how to give them and the customers what they need but still still acknowledge the issues that are in place.
Markus Seebauer:Yeah, I think often it's important to see the big picture. What are the most visited articles, where do you get the most traffic? And then you can start with these, and then you can start with these. In the past, it was often done like, okay, let's translate everything to every language we have.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah.
Markus Seebauer:And that feels like quite an outdated way.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, yeah, no, that does. I've seen that myself. Where it's, you have the one plan. That is all right. We're going to spend three years and we are going to really just make this what it needs to be and maintain it and come up with a plan. Or let's pick topic by topic and start chipping away at it. This is something that's connected to a launch of this, so let's have this be our focus for right now, and then we'll have these others kind of happen, as it makes sense for those things to happen. Once you start working on translations for companies, how often do you have to go back and connect with them throughout the years?
Markus Seebauer:Usually, companies which handle that very well. They have regular updates or we do it in a continuous workflow. These are the two ways to do it. That's good and otherwise what I see a lot. Maybe there's even a good translation at the beginning, and I see all these public knowledge bases right and uh, I don't even know how they were translated by whom. And then that two major things sometimes, um, companies, they, um, they find it challenging to manage these updates because they continuously, uh, update the English content and then they don't want to send that out all the time, maybe if they have six, 10, 20 languages or more. So then these small updates they keep in English time. Then it looks a little bit like cheese where there are more and more holes, and there are companies where it's almost like half the text is in English on some pages, where it's a really bad global user experience.
Sarah Caminiti:Oh man, oh man. What do you hope to see in the future with AI and with knowledge bases and just education for how things have changed so drastically in just the last couple of years? What are you hoping to see happen in the next two years?
Markus Seebauer:That's a good question. I think, yeah, we need sensible ways how to use AI, and AI can be great to put out more content, maybe for specific audiences, because people in different countries also use products differently. That's a very different way. And then it's very natural that the knowledge base has help centers. They will also be adjusted and if there are screenshots, if there are people involved, then that also needs to be localized. Now I saw a really interesting post where someone who was formerly at HubSpot she wrote that they used some stock photos of Asian people and then in the office in Japan they said, oh, they're clearly not Japanese. And in the US headquarter they just didn't consider that. Right, it's like you don't know what you don't know.
Sarah Caminiti:No, that's true. No, that is very true, it's you don't know what you don't know. But also, you can always ask and for someone like yourself who sees these situations come up in text form a lot of the time, what is your approach to your team when they spot these things or when someone feels disrespected when they're going through this content and it's using language in a way that isn't culturally appropriate? How do you help protect those that would be impacted from this?
Markus Seebauer:Yeah, usually we try to explain that to the client, and many people are very happy to hear about these things, and some people don't understand it, or maybe then it gets lost somehow. Then there's only so much we can do.
Sarah Caminiti:For sure, for sure, it must be hard. Sometimes, though, you enter into these spaces understanding the context of things, and you try to share the context to others, and if they're not receptive of it, it kind of makes your work not only more difficult but more complex, because now you're trying to navigate these nuances that aren't understood by the space that you're trying to make better. So you're really giving a gift to the people that live in these countries and are in this culture without the company that is presenting now, this gift of just standard contextual conversations with their community within those spaces, like they don't even realize that you're doing it. So you're just like the silent superhero.
Markus Seebauer:Yes, for example, one company. They even sell DEI courses, so it's extremely critical for them to get this right. And then they had photos. I think they still have this. They have photos of women and then they have the job titles under the photos as testimonials, which is very common, and in English it's gender neutral, usually for job titles. Yeah, but in Spanish, in German, in many European languages, oh they're gender specific.
Markus Seebauer:Exactly. So that is something that is really offensive to like in general, like it's really odd, and then in that specific context it's like really offensive.
Sarah Caminiti:Very much Did you anticipate, coming into this space as a technical person who found this opportunity to help companies with their education globally, to help companies with their education globally, that you would end up working almost in a almost in like an HR role of creating this, this appropriate space for, for the global consumers of these brands?
Markus Seebauer:No, I didn't anticipate that at all, but also many other things. I didn't anticipate that at all, but also many other things I didn't expect. What are some of the other unexpected things that you've come across over the years? Having something like a send desk and then making sure having a right process where this is sent to translators in a semi-automated way, and the complexity that gets into that and you also see this with really big companies, some of the biggest big companies, like some some of the biggest. Then there's like a page missing in the, the translated knowledge base, and then there's auto forwarding to the, the main page. Like that's like extremely bad user experience, like yeah at least.
Markus Seebauer:Then you need to show the english page and, uh, there needs to be a note that this is not translated. Like, that's the least you can do.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, yeah, and so you're going through all of these documents. You're kind of also a UX tester.
Markus Seebauer:That is like a whole other role that you're playing in these companies yes, um, people really don't like flags because, um, yeah, like even like a us flag, and then it's naturally for companies to get into the british market. It just looks like it's not local and that that conveys a lot, especially in e-commerce, where that means shipping is expensive and slow or this conveys this could be an issue with the time zone to reach someone, yeah, and and then it's also political like, like, for example, french Canadians, they're even with other countries where it's even more sensitive when there are certain flags displayed.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, oh, I didn't even think about that, because it's true, there's been more than one occasion where I've gone onto a website that you know you saw it on social media or something you click the link to to check it out, and then it keeps showing up with the uk flag instead of the us flag. And since you're finding this on social media, you're not sure if it even is something that's available to you in the US. And so either you decide in the moment do I spend the next like 15 minutes poking around to understand if this is even something that I can buy if I choose to or do I just go and buy it from a place that sells almost the exact same thing in the US market. That, I know, is a sure win.
Markus Seebauer:Yeah, and sometimes it's really easy to stand out, Like, for example, in the South African market. People are used that it's not tailored to them, but then Google at least for some things they do it, so it looks really local and people notice that.
Sarah Caminiti:Wow, Markus, this brings up something that I didn't expect with this conversation, because so often when I'm talking to others within the CX space, we get into big conversations about being a differentiator, and being a differentiator by providing the level of service and care and thoughtfulness to the customer where you know it matters.
Sarah Caminiti:And then that sticks with them, and then they want to tell their friends about this because you don't know what you're going to get. Just like what we were talking about earlier with writing into support. Just like what we were talking about earlier with writing into support. But this is a whole. Other piece of it is the customer experience, but it's also through the user experience of the actual website, but being a differentiator just by acknowledging their existence, that's it.
Markus Seebauer:Yes, and sometimes it's like some companies. They do it really well. For example, I have the Aura Ring right.
Markus Seebauer:It's like a variable for sleep tracking. For anyone who doesn't know it, it's a really good product and they got a bit greedy, like they grew really fast and then they introduced memberships, and this is often a challenge when you have existing customers. I got it really early and people got really angry, like on Trustpilot, like you saw, like hundreds of complaints, and then I think also they understood something in the customer success. And then when think also they understood something in customer success. And then when I had an issue with the ring, they just shipped a new one for free and I didn't realize how much of an impact this had, because I was already on the fence, like really angry. Like I bought a product for a one-time fee. Like this is like a physical product, it's not like a cess, yeah and um. Then I got angry, like now I have.
Markus Seebauer:I calculated how, if I use this for years, how much extra I would need to spend. Yeah, yeah and, of course, like they invest into the product, it's getting better and I like the product, and then I got the product for free. So I became really like an advocate and you might think this might not matter so much, but then, like in the tech communities where I am like these are all like early adopters and and people, um, who who spread the message uh, much faster than, like the, the average person. Yeah, so I think that had a huge impact. Otherwise I don't think I would have bought another one for two or three hundred dollars and the cost of the product I don't think is so high in that case.
Sarah Caminiti:No, that's so true, it is. It's funny how those things that seem like such huge deals to us when they happen are so rare nowadays. Especially it's even with, like an Apple product. I pay every month into AppleCare so that when my phone starts acting weird, I can take it to an Apple store and, in theory, they just replace it for you because you have Apple care and they trust you and they know that. You know if, if you're, they look at your phone and it is acting weird, then they're not going to make a big deal out of it. And now that's not even as much of a case as it used to be.
Sarah Caminiti:It's like it's these companies that create these loyal brands or brand ambassadors by, like the folks in South Africa that are seeing these companies that are acknowledging them on their website, like you receiving that ring for for free when everyone was struggling with the, the change in structure of the company. And then you build it and you build it, and you build it, and then at some point you have a choice and it's the choices. Do we continue to just really lean into this brand ambassadorship of our customer base and continue to foster that, or do we start taking away little things and see if they notice and raise the price for the subscription, but actually take away certain pieces and functionalities and see if anybody picks up on it and how long that can go until it gets noisier and noisier and we actually have to address it. And that just made me think about your job of translating these documents and these knowledge bases for companies and these spaces for companies, even if you're a customer of theirs, to see things evolve over time like that.
Sarah Caminiti:You're like your ring. It wasn't a subscription service when you purchased it. Then it became a subscription service. What stayed? What remained? What things are they articulating? What things do they want to have be translated? What countries are they translating things to? It's, uh, it's. You can become a differentiator and you can lose that just as quickly as you gain it, and there's so many different ways to embrace it.
Markus Seebauer:Yeah, I think it's a good point that you mentioned Apple and yeah, I just got the new M3 MacBook Air, which is great. Book air, which is great, um, um and um when, when I had issues with my previous one um with apple that was not very customer friendly, to to charge a lot, to to change the sound or something, something small, and then you lose the verity and yeah. So all these things, yeah, they affect the customers perception. Now I think we will have to translate a lot of repair articles because with the new legislation and the trend towards sustainability, there will be more where people they want to repair things by themselves to save money and also because of sustainability. Like electronics, waste is really hard to recycle and it's a big issue.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, that is an interesting point For some of these companies that have used your services in the past and you've built a rapport with them and they are recognizing things that are going on in countries where you have much more of an understanding and grasp of of the people and their needs and but also how to convey that information to them appropriately. Do you have companies come to you outside of just the translation piece of how do we approach this situation now?
Markus Seebauer:Yes, Like this, this. This happens a lot.
Sarah Caminiti:Really.
Markus Seebauer:Yes, companies they are at different stages, right, like sometimes they are wondering you know, what languages do we do? Or where do we start, which articles are more important? Because they don't have all the resources, and not just financially but in terms of team capacity, because they consider already the next step, that they also need to keep it up to date. And also, when it comes to support ticket translation, many companies they start with something simple like Google Translate, which is easy to integrate Many APIs. They start with something simple like Google Translate, which is easy to integrate Many APIs, it's cheap, it has almost every language. But then they realize there are many issues and when you have colloquial language, for example, or you have customers they type quickly on their phone, they don't use proper interpunctuation. Machine translation was not built for that. It was trained on bilingual text for the European Union or stuff like that. It was not trained on colloquial language, how people write.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, so what do you do in those situations?
Markus Seebauer:I think first of all, adjust expectations and make people aware that this could be an issue, because people often think, yes, people understand maybe, but they might get annoyed, they might feel the company is a little bit complicated or they're not local. There might be really major issues that make it hard to understand. And then in the next step, this also affects then how do you communicate, like people, then they write the tickets, the customer support people. They write the tickets in English, let's say, and then they use Google Translate or some other tool like manually or with integration or some other tool like manually or with integration. So then also the slang and colloquial language. That could also affect things, but usually it comes mostly from the other side because, like the customers, they write quickly and then maybe the grammar is not correct.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, the typos all these things affect and the, the automated translation no, well, and also it's uh for technical things and technical issues that come up. It must get very convoluted to try and offer tech support in an efficient way when you're trying to just do it all through Google Translate.
Markus Seebauer:Yes, and the support challenge is one major reason why companies stay away from international markets, because they feel, oh yes, like now, if we offer our product in other languages, how do we do the support? And then we don't need a full time person, right? How do we manage this?
Sarah Caminiti:If a company came to you and asked you this question, as you were looking to to work on their knowledge bases, and what would you recommend that they did?
Markus Seebauer:That's a good question. I think they're different ways, like there are other service providers where they provide customer support in other languages. That could be a solution for some companies and at some stages, for the company, and then eventually they hire a full-time person. And then another solution is to look at the company and then eventually they hire a full-time person. And then another solution is to look at the machine translation engines, and they also vary across languages. Let's say, what works well for Brazilian Portuguese doesn't work well for Chinese.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, wow, no's. That's true, it's. Uh, there's so many companies out there, so many startups and bootstrapped companies that are as scrappy and lean as can be, but they're global companies. What do you? What would be like the one thing that you would recommend a company think about when they're starting to realize that they're standing out because they're not acknowledging that these other countries exist and they're using their product?
Markus Seebauer:When they are aware that people in other countries use their product. I think that's already good. Of course, somewhere they have the data in the company, but not always at the right places. I think it's important to understand that this is like a chicken-egg problem. People say, yes, we just have a few customers internationally, so we are not focused on that. Yes, and then it will also stay like that. Yeah, it's. It's important to understand like this is like a mid to long term in investment. Yeah, to have to have good global products and to have a good customer experience and invest in localization and the cultural components.
Markus Seebauer:And you can see that the biggest companies, some of the biggest companies, have issues with that, like, for example, with Airbnb. When you write to a host, you book an apartment and then the listing is another language. They translate that, but then they also translate the messages automatically. And when this is, then let's say, this is like from Spanish to German, and I had this last year. I just couldn't understand it Right and it was challenging to find. Where do I switch this off?
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, oh, wow, yeah, because something like Airbnb you are at the mercy of these people for your lodging while you are in a country, you are in a foreign space and with with Airbnb, you do have to reach out to the host when you are at the place to know how to turn on the dishwasher or how to lock the door the right way, or maybe you're even locked out and if they don't have the right tools in place, or even if they don't even have like a localized support team that is then able to say, oh well, this sort of this is a local like this is a dishwasher or something that that's really common in in our space here, and I can tell you how to walk. I'll walk you through how to do that. Like if you get somebody in San Francisco and you're asking them, like it's making all these noises, I'm nervous that I'm gonna like burn down the house or something what's happening.
Sarah Caminiti:I can't reach out to my host. They're not going to be able to help you. But if they're actually focused on oh wait, we're a travel company we should probably have folks that understand the goings on of these surroundings when they're talking to customers. You would actually be able to probably reduce a lot of travel stress.
Markus Seebauer:Yes, I think definitely, and I had a lot of travel stress last year in particular. So it's interesting, since you mentioned support in the local language, I would have been glad if there was any support, at least when I had a serious safety issue with Airbnb. When I was in Latin America last year, I had a very nice Airbnb, everything was very modern and I really enjoyed it. And then I took a shower and when I went out of the shower and I opened the glass door, then it just splashed into a thousand pieces and um yeah, like I was, I was bleeding and I was traveling alone, so like it's like pretty scary, right.
Sarah Caminiti:Terrifying.
Markus Seebauer:Yeah. So then I tried to call Airbnb, yeah, and I couldn't reach anyone, right?
Sarah Caminiti:No, yeah, oh my gosh, that sounds terrible, are you okay?
Markus Seebauer:Yeah, yeah.
Markus Seebauer:I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay. Um, thankfully, uh it, it was not such a such a big uh issue, but that was like stressful, right, like when it's like you have such an injury, like there's there's quite some blood, yeah, and you don't know how bad is this. And being alone in a foreign country, and it's not only like they're the emergency number, right, airbnb I couldn't reach it, I don't know. For example, they might, they might prioritize, they might prioritize people in the us, for example, or in Europe, but, like, I am a traveler yes, a traveler is a traveler.
Markus Seebauer:And then also, I mean I have used Airbnb a lot, so it's pretty shocking to, yeah, someone from Airbnb, like an executive, told me when I met him at a conference. He said, yeah, we are just so overwhelmed and, right, everyone wants to cut costs and customer support, yeah, but even there's something so like safety critical, where you just want someone who is there just to be there. You just want someone who is there just to be there With someone like me, where I've used Airbnbs for a decade and I use it a lot.
Markus Seebauer:You travel a lot, yeah, so for me it says a lot about where do we stand with the customer support.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, where do we stand with the customer support? Yeah, well, it's so. You're paying the service fees that are attached, to use airbnb, to which is a lot, a lot.
Sarah Caminiti:I was just looking the other day and it almost one of them like almost doubled the price of of the, the rental, um and so, but it's just like with apple care, I mean, it's like it's you're, I mean it's like it's you're paying into these services, for those, like once in a blue moon, holy cow, I need help and support and somebody to just like make sure that I am a priority in this moment because I'm terrified or everything's malfunctioning, and for the response to be you're paying into all of these things. We've told you that this is what it goes towards and this is what it does and everything, but actually we're not going to invest in making sure the people that are using our products or our rental properties and the experience of travel, which is what it area is all about are actually safe and have what they need, and then talk about a differentiator making a wrong move and changing that kind of opportunity for themselves.
Markus Seebauer:Yeah, and I think these things they add up right.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, they do.
Markus Seebauer:Airbnb is just an example, one of many. Everyone has had a bad experience with them, probably especially in the last few years With software companies. It's similar. Some companies they might be a market leader, they might not fear the competition, they might be so busy because they are growing. But then the tide is turning slowly, like where people maybe they have challenges with the quality of the product, with the quality of the support, with the pricing, yeah, and then these things accumulate well, it's a cockiness, isn't it?
Sarah Caminiti:it's uh, it's well, we're, we're at the top. It doesn't matter like. This isn't that big of a deal I don't need to invest in. I don't need to acknowledge the fact that I've got competitors that have things that are at a lower cost and people are really talking about them. We're at the top. We're always going to be at the top, but then nowadays there's so many things that do the exact same thing, like. Airbnb is not the only service that's like this. There's like seven other ones now and you have a bad experience with Airbnb. Next time you just go and book over with the other place and see how it goes.
Markus Seebauer:Right. I often get the exact same apartment for cheaper, mostly because of the lower fees at another major website. Yeah, so yeah, I think for tech companies now in these challenging times, like where companies grew so fast many during COVID, right and now we have this kind of correction, like some companies have so many layoffs in terms of the numbers of people and also the percentage of the whole workforce, and I think to keep the people in mind, that that goes also a long way, not not just yeah, because you want to be treated like that as well, but also from from a, from a business, business side is is that, I think, crucial for for companies is.
Sarah Caminiti:It is because we are a global market now and word travels fast and certain things stick, and if you don't acknowledge the mistakes that you made, or the choices that you made, or actually have your actions match the words that you're saying, yes, that's a good one. Then, then it'll. It'll hurt you in the long run. I could talk to you for hours, Markus. I'm so glad that we finally got to have this conversation.
Markus Seebauer:Likewise, Sarah.
Sarah Caminiti:We do in every podcast, by asking the guests that gift me with their time what era do you find yourself in right now, or what era do you see yourself moving into? And so, Markus, as we close out this conversation, what era are you in right now?
Markus Seebauer:I see myself really growing into this era of AI and where we deliver actual value with AI like an added value that just goes beyond cutting costs. I love that. There are so many ways to use AI. Also, many things we touched upon today.
Markus Seebauer:When you ask the right questions, you can get good answers right.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, you can, you really can. Yeah, I hope that this is an era that many find themselves moving into because AI isn't going anywhere. I think we can all admit that, but, at the same time, doing it the right way and being thoughtful about it is what's going to pave what the future looks like for how we approach this new space that we find ourselves in.
Markus Seebauer:Right, I think it's an exciting space. We all have to adjust and we all have our challenges with that. Yeah, just for that.
Sarah Caminiti:Yeah, thank you so much for tuning into Epochal Growth. A special thanks to Markus Seebauer for his incredible insights on differentiating in the global market. If you found value in today's conversation, don't forget to hit subscribe or follow this podcast and leave us a review. We'd love to hear from you. Connect with me here or connect with me by finding me on LinkedIn or texting me using the awesome feature from Buzzsprout. Remember, listeners, that we can't wait around to see change happen. When you feel it in yourself that a better way exists, you owe it to yourself and those around you to try, because great things happen when you do. Don't forget to get your tickets to the Elevate CX events in Denver and in London. Until next time, I'm Sarah Caminiti. Have a great day.
