Shedding Ego for Career Growth with Sarah Hatter

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What does it mean to lead with authenticity and foster genuine connections in the workplace? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Sarah Hatter, the founder of ElevateCX, as she unpacks the dynamics of building meaningful relationships and robust support systems, especially for women in the professional sphere. Sarah Hatter shares her journey and highlights the transformative power of shedding ego and competition, illuminating how these changes can spur both personal and career growth. Learn about the pivotal role of risk-taking and seizing new opportunities in shaping fulfilling careers, and the empowerment that comes from making deliberate choices.

Ever wondered how profound life experiences can break down social barriers and create deep, lasting friendships? This episode delves into the unique bonds formed through shared transformative events, such as completing the Camino. Sarah and I discuss the challenges of forming genuine friendships as adults and the importance of vulnerability and trust in connecting with others both personally and professionally. The conversation emphasizes the necessity of community and mutual support, highlighting how these elements are essential for navigating life's hurdles and achieving personal aspirations.

Discover the power of a supportive community, particularly for women aged 35 to 45, as we explore the shift from competition to collaboration. Reflecting on experiences in the tech industry, Sarah and I stress the importance of recognizing one's values and the pivotal role of mentorship. We also dive into strategies for effective customer support and the persistent challenges CX teams face in gaining recognition. Through inspiring stories and practical advice, this episode underscores the significance of embracing change, taking risks, and the profound impact of a community that celebrates achievements and fosters a collaborative environment.

Takeaways

• Building genuine relationships and finding support in the workplace is crucial, especially for women.
• Dropping the ego and competition allows for authentic connections and mutual support.
• Taking risks and being open to new opportunities can lead to personal and professional growth.
• Choice and empowerment are key in creating a fulfilling career. Take pride in your accomplishments and allow yourself to feel good about your work in the support community.
• Asking for help and support is not a sign of weakness, but rather a way to build relationships and connections.
• Sharing experiences and knowledge within the support community is valuable and helps to create a supportive and collaborative environment.
• Have confidence in your abilities and advocate for yourself and your team in order to be recognized and valued in the workplace.
• Prioritize relationships and empathy in support interactions, as they are key to building trust and providing a positive customer experience.

Sound Bites

"I feel like I have known you for 15 years."

"Women our age are so done with the competition, we're so over it."

"Elevate is a safe space to ask questions and receive thoughtful help."

"You have to allow yourself to be proud of yourself."

"Support in the communal sense compounds the more you receive it."

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Epochal Growth
• 0:56 ElevateCX Challenge
• 10:26 Building Deep Friendship Through Shared Experiences
• 15:17 Empowering Supportive Community for Women
• 28:17 Taking Risks and Embracing Change
• 34:12 Supporting and Empowering in Business
• 43:28 Effective Strategies for Customer Support
• 47:20 Team Communication Support Report Value
• 53:08 Navigating Change and Embracing Growth

Transcript

Sarah Caminiti: 0:03

How many times have you thought there has to be a better way? Welcome to Epochal Growth, a podcast where we invite industry leaders and change makers who thought that very thing and realized that, yeah, a better way to lead or to grow or to build does exist, and once they trusted themselves enough to discover what's possible, they created the foundation for a new era that's revolutionizing the landscape of success. The word Epochal refers to these very moments in time, because when you commit to being better, the impact will last for generations to come. I'm your host, Sarah Caminiti. Join me to uncover practical insights and strategies that will empower you to be the change that you seek. I'm so happy that you're here.

Sarah Caminiti: 0:56

Hey, you're here. I'm so glad I'm Sarah, and this is episode 13 of Epochal Growth Instead of housekeeping today, because we all know the perks of following and subscribing. If you're new, you know where to find these things on YouTube and wherever you listen to your podcasts and you also know that Buzzsprout came out with this wild feature allowing you to send me text messages by clicking the link in the description. It's pretty cool and you're well-versed in reviews. I'm going to go rogue. I'm throwing a challenge your way. Pretty cool and you're well-versed in reviews,

Sarah Caminiti: 1:23

I'm going to go rogue. I'm throwing a challenge your way, listeners.

Sarah Caminiti: 1:27

September 26th and 27th, Elevate CX is back with their 46th conference in Denver. It's so close to selling out, but we're not there yet. So here's a challenge

Sarah Caminiti: 1:38

Use the link in the episode description and purchase your tickets for the two-day conference. If we sell this event out, I will figure out a way to get my ass out to Denver. If I wasn't returning from my husband's surprise 40th birthday trip the day before, I would be figuring nothing out. I would already be there. But if I do get out there, I'll twist Sarah Hatter's arm and get her to let me have one of those coveted speaker spots. Maybe it'll be about defining your core values. I'll record a live episode and I will make every introduction to all of the most incredible people that are already planning to attend with you listeners.

Sarah Caminiti: 2:17

If you don't know how to ask your employer for the time off or ask if they have a budget for events like this, use that Buzzsprout text link and send me a message, or find me on the ElevateCX Slack. Find me on LinkedIn. We can make magic happen. Don't let what ifs and worry prevent you from going to an event as important for your growth as this one. I'm serious. Please just ask. We're happy to help. I really do hope that we sell out. I really do hope that you force me to get on that plane so that I can have the best time with the best people, including you. So please buy your tickets now and invite your team. This is for leaders. This is for individual contributors. Anyone will benefit from this event event.

Sarah Caminiti: 3:10

Before I introduce our guest today, I also have to give a holy crap thank you to Priscilla and Jordan and Happy to Help and everyone over at Buzzsprout. Priscilla sent me a message after recording an episode of Happy to Help, asking me for my address, saying she was sending me something for the podcast. I thought she was sending me a sticker or a t-shirt, which would have been lovely I would have been very excited for either, but she sent me a beautiful podcast specific microphone. I'm using it right now. I'm sure everybody can hear the difference. I'm so fortunate to be surrounded by people that empower me and lift me up. Priscilla, thank you so much for this surprise. I just feel very lucky to have met you and your team and I am really, really pumped for our episode to come out. I wish I would have had this microphone, though, when we recorded part two.

Sarah Caminiti: 3:55

But hey, speaking of someone who empowers and lifts up those around her, today's guest is a name Anyone in the CX space is familiar with. She wrote the customer support handbook. She founded an entire community aimed to elevate the opportunities and lives of those in the customer experience space. She mentors, she encourages and she shines light on every person that she meets, and somehow she's also managed to crack the algorithm in ways that have me convinced. She's some sort of test subject for TikTok. Yeah, I'm talking about Sarah Hatter, founder of ElevateCX, the very event you need to go to. This is going to be the easiest sell after you listen to Sarah talk. I consider not doing an intro for this episode, because how do you introduce someone like Sarah Hatter? But I couldn't pass up the chance to yell into the universe how much I admire this woman and how much better my life has been in these short months since Jacqueline Mullen told me to send Sarah a message out of the blue. Like reaching out to the founder of an incredible community was no big deal, because that's just who Sarah is. She makes it not a big deal to reach out to her, and she will always find time for those that ask.

Sarah Caminiti: 4:57

Some key takeaways from this episode are how important it is to build genuine relationships and find support in the workplace. It's crucial, especially for women. Drop the ego and competition and just allow authentic connections and mutual support to surround you, and for you to surround others with. Take risks and be open to new opportunities, because it can lead to personal and professional growth that you did not expect. We're also going to talk about how choice and empowerment are key in creating a fulfilling career and taking pride in your accomplishments and allowing yourself to feel good about your work in and out of the support community. You're doing great things and you should really really give yourself a moment to just appreciate all that you do.

Sarah Caminiti: 5:40

We'll also talk about how asking for help and support is not a sign of weakness. We teach this to others all the time, but why is it so hard for us to realize this for ourselves? It's a way to build relationships. It's a way to build connections. It's a way to learn Listeners. Sharing experiences and knowledge within the support community is so valuable, and it helps create a supportive and collaborative environment. It helps just lift you up and make you realize that you're doing the right thing. You got to have confidence in your abilities. You have to advocate for yourself. You have to advocate for your team in order to be recognized and valued in the workplace.

Sarah Caminiti: 6:16

Sarah goes into detail about all of the ways that you can make this happen and what happens when you start committing to this level of change, and she also gives fantastic advice on how to prioritize relationship and empathy and support interactions. As we all know, they are key to building trust and providing a customer experience that makes an impact, sticks with the customer and has them telling their friends all about it. I won't keep you any longer. I'm really excited for this episode. If you don't know Sarah, I can't wait for you to meet her. This is episode 13 of Epochal Growth with Sarah Hatter, like a couple weeks ago. He's crushing it and it's amazing. I'm proud of him.

Sarah Hatter: 6:57

Well, you're crushing it too. I mean, look at you Like just a rocket ship out of Mars into our galaxy. Where did you come from? Where are you going? Where have you been? I've been in a hole.

Sarah Caminiti: 7:09

I've been in a hole. I emerged and unexpectedly, like kind of against my will truly, and then it was like and I guess I'm here, everybody, that's right, that's right, yeah, and that's great. I mean, that's right, that's right.

Sarah Hatter: 7:26

Yeah, that's great.

Sarah Caminiti: 7:26

I mean truly Wild ride. It's been, but like, I still like think about you and I like I feel like I have known you for 15 years.

Sarah Hatter: 7:36

So should we talk about this Our first conversation?

Sarah Caminiti: 7:39

Yeah, you know what let's just dive into the actual podcast and talk about this.

Sarah Hatter: 7:43

So Jacqueline Mullen, who we love, who is the greatest person. I feel like we need to give her name space because she's so amazing, we love her so much. She's such a connector, she's such a supporter, just encourager. She connected us and I'm not kidding. Like two weeks before I had had a conversation with my best friend, trevor, where I was just like I'm not, I'm not making any more friends named Sarah. I'm done, I'm done with it, because my other best friend for 45 years who's well, I would not even 45 years, that's not true, it's just 40 years um, her name's Sarah, the one I did the Camino with, um, and there's. And then Sarah Betts is also in support driven, and there's like Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. There I was working with another girl named Sarah. I've always had to be the person who makes the concession and I always go by sh, because there's always four other sarahs in the room.

Sarah Hatter: 8:35

We had this whole conversation where I was just like I'm not making friends with people named Sarah, I'm sick of it. And so then I get this invite from someone named Sarah and I'm like oh, another Sarah, great, okay, ignore, delete, okay, whatever. And you were like can we hop on a call and chat and you know, funnily enough, I don't think people realize that is a primary function of my job. My job that I do this, you know, running Elevate, running this community. My primary objective and function is getting on the phone with people who ask to get on the phone with me. Sometimes I have no idea why and sometimes it's like a real, clear objective, like they have a question for me. I'm just so open to it that I never think to be like what do you want to talk to me about? I can't believe you said yes, truly, I did not think in a million years.

Sarah Caminiti: 9:23

You were going to default.

Sarah Hatter: 9:30

And I just do by default, right, because I'm so used to it this part and I'm realizing now yeah, look at the balloons. Right, I'm realizing now maybe I need to have some sort of like qualifier in that, since I'm just opening myself up to whatever we got on the phone and it was. It was truly one of those experiences where you feel like, have we known each other before? Did we grow up together in a past life? Like what is the weird connection? Because you would say something about something you had done and I'd be like I've done that as well. And then I would say something and you'd say I've done that as well, and it was weird stuff, weird stuff, not like.

Sarah Caminiti: 10:05

Oh yeah, I really like to walk down Main Street on Tuesdays.

Sarah Hatter: 10:09

No, I like walks on the beach right. No, it was like I brought up the Camino de Santiago. I had walked the Camino de Santiago last year. You're like I walked the Camino de Santiago, and that is unusual.

Sarah Caminiti: 10:23

first, of all, I've never met someone that's done it Never.

Sarah Hatter: 10:26

I meet people peripherally, like online, right. Maybe you meet someone who or I think the most common thing is people who want to do it or know of it and want to hear about it Like, you get that a lot, but it's so rare to meet someone in the wild who has done it. So when you do, it's one of those life experiences that you cannot understand or comprehend until you experience it, and that is not an exclusivity kind of thing or a disinclusion kind of thing, it's just a fact. So when you meet someone who has been through that, who understands what that was like, you just go into a whole other level with them.

Sarah Caminiti: 11:07

Right, you go into a whole other plane of existence, really, right, it's so, so true, like the things that you and I started talking about, like our feelings and and like the aftermath and and like the the stuff that you don't share with people, usually right off the bat, especially if they're like thinking about doing it. Like the the stuff that you don't share with people, usually right off the bat, especially if they're like thinking about doing it, like the reality of what the Camino is like, like it was all the same and and it was just like wait, wait a second. I really cause my friend didn't experience it like I did, but you experienced it like I did Right, yeah, I mean, it was nuts.

Sarah Hatter: 11:46

And so I think from then it just we became such quick friends due to the nature of, like our past lived experiences, but also like we were talking about like hopes and dreams, and we were talking like we're on this call. It's like we've never spoken before. We're like you know what I want to do, do you know what I really want to do? And we're like encouraging each other, like yes, let's do it, and I just I never, I've never had that experience before with, especially because as you get older, it's so difficult to find great friends, it's so difficult to sort of like have those experiences you had, like when you're in your twenties and you meet someone in the bathroom at a bar and you become best friends, like.

Sarah Hatter: 12:18

Those kinds of magic moments happen less and less and less as you get older and as you get distracted with life and all of that. You just don't have the capacity for it. So I was just so excited I'm still so excited and it's been, it's been great. We keep joking about how it's like have we only known each other for two months? Like what, like how, how long has it?

Sarah Caminiti: 12:37

been, so let's just list all the things that have, because that's everything there. Like you and I entered one another's lives in a very strange time in one of each of our lives, but we didn't realize for both of us, yeah like we had no idea what was to come.

Sarah Caminiti: 12:55

It was like we just started to, like we could feel there was something brewing and each thing that happened kind of connected us in other ways and we started on this journey of like the great unknown through these past couple of months. And it has been such a dream and just I'm so thankful to have you. Me too, I don't know how I could have navigated some of the curveballs over these last few months without you, because you're just your true confidant and like, oh my gosh, it's just been a dream.

Sarah Hatter: 13:39

Well, I think you need to give yourself some credit because you are you know I told you before that the rocket ship kind of person. You were just on an amazing path right now. But remember that rocket ships have to burn through the ether to get where they need to be and that is a tough road. But if you're determined like I know you are, like you absolutely will get through this stuff. It just really helps.

Sarah Hatter: 14:01

And it's like you know, I'm such a dork that I always bring stuff back to like community, authenticity and relationships. I mean, that's just obviously my heart, it's what drives me. But I think that is the point of us seeking each other out and finding each other is so that we have something to balance us and to push us along and to watch for us as we're shooting off into the sky. You need those people around, but it is so hard to find if you're not intentional about it and also if those communities aren't intentional about it, right, if you're not being put in a place where you know that when I went to the room, everyone there is wanting to help me and wanting to meet me and wanting to know about my life and seeing ways they can support, because that's just not the norm all the time Right, so there's vulnerability too.

Sarah Caminiti: 14:45

I mean the fact that both of us felt safe enough with one another. All the other stuff that helped build that in like two seconds definitely helped. But and that's not normal but I think that in for females in workspaces there's automatically like a guard up, like you want so badly to trust these people, but you also don't know if you should and you never meet them in person, and so if you share too much, do not share too much. But you and I just have started like just letting it all hang out and thank you to the introduction of the audio message that opened up a whole new.

Sarah Hatter: 15:26

Yeah, remember you went to get wings and we were sitting there sending each other audio messages just because, like you'd never done that before, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna change your life right now sending yeah, yeah, well, I think you know it's. It's funny because you bring up a really good point about this idea of like how women in community or women in industry or women in the workplace relate to each other. I think we're in a really interesting time when it comes to like how women are relating to each other, because when you get into like that 35 to like 45 age range, you start to like whittle down what, what do I want and need for relationships and what is important to me. And I don't think that most people do it consciously. I think most people just kind of do it, you know, as situations arise or come along. But I think, primarily, given just who we are let's say, millennials or whatever you want to call it women, our age are so done with like the competition.

Sarah Hatter: 16:22

We're so over it and like I'm in a place in my life where I'm not competing with anybody. I'm not competing with anybody, I'm not doing a foot race with you, I'm not racing you to the end of the block. I don't care Like, I'm in my lane and I'm doing what's great for me and I'm doing my awesome stuff and that gives me the agency and the space to be excited for your awesome stuff and to like push you along and support you. But I don't want to. I'm not trying to like be side by side comparing notes.

Sarah Hatter: 16:47

You know, that's like that's just where the frustration has been for us in the last 10 or 15 years, especially working in tech. You know, as I have, as you have, it's just a. It's just a weird world. Unless you put those guardrails on, you say, well, this is how I want to be and this is how the example I want to be and this is what I'm going to let in my life. I just don't. I don't deal with like that bullshittery of of weird competition and ego, and there's there's so much more we could be doing with our lives. You know what I mean?

Sarah Caminiti: 17:16

oh my gosh yeah, like I've realized it's it's. I love that you put it into that age bracket because truly it has been once I hit that number of and mine ended up happening more outwardly, like I actually spent time reflecting on my career and the relationships that I have around me and why they exist and for a number of reasons, but it allowed me to really see my value and what my values are and how those have guided me throughout my life in ways that I didn't anticipate that they would.

Sarah Caminiti: 17:54

And now I'm in this place of okay, well, I'm confident in myself, like I don't need to continue to level up in such like an intense way. It's like I know where I'm supposed to be and build from there. I don't need to be like trying to maybe I need to like dabble in this entire other career and it's just, I'm here and that's yes. It is so true that our generation of women have seen what their moms have gone through throughout their careers and and seen what their, their neighbors and their friends that were older have gone through in their careers of that competitive, like backstabbing mindset that you see on TV all the time, and it's just the energy that we have does not have room for that nonsense.

Sarah Hatter: 18:46

I completely agree. I also am, like you know, when I talked about this idea of like I don't want to compete with people Like I. I'm also in this weird space being a little bit older than you or being a little bit older than some other people in the elevate community too that I always have been the mom of the class, right, and so much of that is because I reflect a lot on like what did I not have when I was 30? What did I not have when I was 35? What you know? What was it that I needed that I could have used? I'm going to be that person for other women, for other people coming up in their careers. I didn't have anybody telling me how to start for my business. I didn't have anybody telling me how to navigate conflict in the workplace. I didn't have anybody telling me how to negotiate salary or that I should counter. I didn't have any of that stuff.

Sarah Hatter: 19:40

And so, when you realize, I made it through and I figured my stuff out and I had to do it on my own. I don't want other people to have to be doing that on their own. I want to be a resource for that. I want to be someone who they can look to and ask questions, you know, and say, give me some advice, I need help, whatever it might be. That's such a power position to play to in the world. To be the person says I'm going to be the giver of wisdom and help and support and encouragement and I can't imagine sacrificing that or looking at the option for that and then saying I'm going to be catty and backstabby and scumbaggery and I'm going to just like whittle away people's confidence, you know, with snide remarks or something like that. For what? For what?

Sarah Caminiti: 20:27

For what? Yeah, it's. It is what you have created in the Elevate community and in the support community at large is a safe space to I hope so. I hope so To answer questions. Well, I mean, I'm a part of so many different places and what I've always noticed with Elevate in the short time that I've been there, it is truly a place where you are a close friend to everybody here, not just you, Sarah. If you are in this Elevate community, you are a close friend of everybody that is in the Elevate community, whether you know them, have ever interacted with them or not. It is a place where people go and ask questions and they know that they will get help. That is thoughtful, and it is because of you having the intentions that you do to create this space and build off of what you're doing on your own that people are allowing themselves to even consider asking these questions. Yeah, 100%.

Sarah Hatter: 21:28

I so appreciate you acknowledging that and recognizing it and knowing again that you know. My ambitions with Elevate are always what did I need? What did I need back in 2006 when I got my first job at a startup SaaS company? Back before, that was a thing you know. I don't even think the iPhone was out when I started working in support and, given also the fact that I am a lifetime support practitioner, I know this world, I know the language, I know the stressors, I know the ladder, I know the salary bands. I know all this stuff because I live it, I'm in it. And you can't run a community successfully or run a business successfully or manage people on a team successfully if you do not have context for the work that they do. You just can't. And so you know I would never go start a community for, like, oil rig guys I don't know the last thing about it.

Sarah Hatter: 22:25

I have an electric car. I don't know anything about that world and I'm never like if someone were like, well, you can make a hundred thousand dollars, if you have a community for oil rig people, you should go start one of those, why would I do that? That's not going to ever be effective for what it needs to be, which is like authentic relationships and, you know, real support and wisdom, sharing and all of that. So I think that's where it always has to start is like. I have experience that I know other people have, are going to experience where they're going to hit this blocker that I hit. And I look all the time at people who are in this community and elevate, who have been there from the beginning Matt Patterson, you know, lance concept, ben McCormick, erica Clayton all of these people are the same, they're the same type of person where it's like I have been, I've done your job, I've been in your shoes. In fact, like Matt Patterson and I met when we were both like teams of one doing support for SAS companies, we were both like I was employee number six and he was employee number three and he was in Australia and I was in Chicago and we connected because he was a customer of mine who sent me a customer support email, not joking.

Sarah Hatter: 23:34

So we've built, brick by brick by brick, a community of people who really desperately want to share their experiences and they want to share their wisdom freely and they want to guide people and they want to encourage people and they want to give space for someone to say I just got laid off or I had this shitty fight, or I, you know, we're getting acquired, what do I do? And that's what makes it special. And each time somebody posts a question in our chatter channel and says, has anybody done X? And there are just like 37 replies in the first like two minutes and they're all like you said, they're all thoughtful, golden, helpful replies. That is just, and that there's no other way to to explain what we do in Elevate Like that's it, that's what it's, that's what it's for. But but yeah, it does take intention.

Sarah Hatter: 24:26

It has you have to go into it with, with a, you know, a sense of purity around it and no ego, and just you know. What do you need? What can I help with? I think I asked. I probably asked that question constantly in every newsletter and in every like monthly update that I do is how's everyone doing? What do you need? What can I help with? And I love the fact that people tell me they give me answers and we build from that and we, we pivot and we build and we add things and we, you know, try new things and experiment based around that discourse. But yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's. I don't know how to. I don't know how to explain it other than to say I'm just really proud of it and it's not all my doing, I'm not just proud of myself, I'm proud of the whole community at large, you should be, you should be, and it's such a, it's a special place that continues to surprise me.

Sarah Caminiti: 25:17

I was just telling someone yesterday who was asking questions about a job uh, like they were feeling discouraged about the state of the you know the job climate and I told her, just if just post in elevate, if there's a job that you're excited about, if anybody has any connections there, and because I've never seen anything like what I've seen in the last like two days of people just like, hey, I'm super pumped about this job, but I think maybe this person might know someone.

Sarah Caminiti: 25:50

Oh, my gosh, yes, I know someone. Oh, yeah, like what world is this? And it takes that intention and that continuous like thought of I'm here to serve the purpose. And the purpose is everyone should have a chance to be successful and everyone should feel confident when they are going into their job every day. And there's a little bit of anger and frustration behind it because you don't understand why we are still in a space of ambiguity and lack of information sharing outside of our happy little bubble. But instead of using that to become resentful, it is I mean, it's the mind of a support person at the end of the day it really is.

Sarah Hatter: 26:41

And it also gets back to like what you're saying. You have to drop the ego at the door and just say you know I'm going to, I'm going to be bold here and be vulnerable first and I'm going to hope that somebody is going to meet my vulnerability in a safe way and we are going to do something together and the you know the universe really rewards risk. The universe really rewards risk.

Sarah Caminiti: 27:06

We live I mean you and I know we've been living this for the past few months right, like I need to interrupt you just for a second, Sarah, and and just for those that are not watching this video and could not watch me, just start to stifle my laughter, because, through Sarah and my journey, the universe has played a very pivotal role in just everything, in ways that I never imagined were possible, and it is truly a testament to, like you, know when you're on the right path.

Sarah Hatter: 27:40

Yes, yes, 100%. But you know, what's really funny is like in context of what you know, where life has thrown me curveballs in the past couple of months that are just like I did not see coming right at all, like whatsoever. But I did because I do think a big part of of being open to this am I on the right path? And give me signs, like, whatever it is is, you have to be really in tune with your gut. You have to be really in tune with, like, that space, how your body reacts to situations or or certain conflicts or certain confrontations or certain relationships. And I look back and I'm like, yeah, I had an uneasiness. And I look back and I'm like, yeah, I had an uneasiness, I had an uneasiness I couldn't settle. I wasn't in a place where it felt right, but I kept like driving through and I kept pushing through and I kept saying, like we're going to, I'm going to be the one who, like fixes it and like makes it happen and whatever it was.

Sarah Hatter: 28:38

And as soon as you just say you know what, I am going to just be open to whatever, because I've been fighting and I've been pushing and it's not resolving. You are in the same place, right when you're, just like I need to leave this job. I need to leave this job. I have been the person who has just been doing all the heavy lifting and making all the compromises and making all the sacrifices and I'm just going to say, you know, security be damned. I'm going to take a risk and I'm going to put myself first, and when you do that, that is such a risky maneuver. I mean, especially in our industry. We're seeing people get laid off constantly. We're seeing people lose their jobs all the time. You know what boldness to just be like I'm going to voluntarily leave a very safe situation that provides for me because I don't like it.

Sarah Caminiti: 29:27

Right, Like yeah, right, but how empowering it is, how empowering it is to be in this space anymore, right, because I'm not providing the value for the place that I am. That they deserve to have to have somebody that meets them with their value system and connects with them on that way, and that's okay. They can do them. That's just not my space anymore and I would be more valuable elsewhere and so well.

Sarah Hatter: 30:02

It's like sometimes you need perspective of that too, because, like I said, you know you, you we're fighters, we're, we're tenacious and we're not we're not going to give up because it's hard.

Sarah Hatter: 30:13

We are going to fix the situation. But, like I remember this one time, my grandma 2020, um, my grandma was, you know, in the middle of the COVID thing. She's recovering from, uh, cancer surgery. And it was, you know, in the middle of the COVID thing. She's recovering from cancer surgery, and it was I was staying with her as a caretaker because, you know, we had to quarantine together and whatever, she's 94 years old, she's living alone, she has a massive house it's ridiculous and in her living room, this great room, she had a recliner that she would sit in and a giant tv all the way over on the other side of the room, and I mean a long way over. And she's 94 again. It's been there.

Sarah Hatter: 30:52

Remember, like the scene in batman with, like, michael keaton, when they're at that big table. That's what it was like and it's always been like that. It's just, you know, whatever, and we're going to watch a movie and I realize that she's asking me like, what is that? What is that? Because she can't see, her vision had started to deteriorate so bad and she was just living with it and, uh, it had gotten just very, very bad at that point and she's like, yeah, I can't see the tv. I can kind of see stuff. And I just said, okay, get up out of your chair for a second. And I just grabbed her chair and I push it across the room to like five feet in front of the television. I was like, can you see it now? And she's like, well, yeah, but I'm just like in the middle of the room and I was like, well, just sit here, watch the movie and we'll move it back when we need to move it back. But you know, she'd lived in this space where it was just like this is my lane, this is my space and I'm going to make it work. Right, you don't have to.

Sarah Hatter: 31:47

Once you start thinking outside of the confines that you have put yourself in and you start making a little bit of change and taking a little bit of risk and know that you're supported by somebody or people or a community who are going to be there for you if that risk doesn't pan out, you just start to get, you know, more opportunity. And then there's another door that opens and then you get introduced to somebody else and then you hear about this thing that you'd never known about before and oh my gosh, look at this connection. But you're never going to get those opportunities unless you're open to it. And you and I don't just mean like give me opportunity, I mean like I'm actively out there pursuing and looking for and seeking other things. And that is scary.

Sarah Hatter: 32:28

And I don't say that I would never tell someone like wait until you're not afraid and then go do it, build up your courage. You know just, you just can't. You have to go into it despite that, because the risk and reward value we already, we always know that math problem is. You know, we know that that's what it looks like the greater the risk, the higher the reward, right, but um, it's yes it.

Sarah Caminiti: 32:54

No, it's I'm. It's. The cool thing about this community and taking those sorts of chances, though, Sarah is the is how fast you are supported Like how the eagerness from other people to just like be in it with you.

Sarah Hatter: 33:11

Yes.

Sarah Caminiti: 33:12

Like, like it is terrifying, yes, when you are thinking about, oh how, what is like a social media calendar plan, all of these things are like getting overwhelmed by all of these things that I still would never even dream to understand. And then you're just in it and you didn't expect to be in it. And then you look around and it's just like I have a team, I've got a team and I didn't on having a team and, uh, it doesn't take courage really, at the end of the day, it just takes chance and choice.

Sarah Hatter: 33:45

And choice is the big one. It's the big one. I mean, that's what it is, and I think, as women we grew up, a lot of us entered into the workplace just being told like this is what your job is and this is your salary, this is your job title, and you sit here until somebody calls you into an office and gives you more, and then you're so grateful for whatever more they gave you and, like I said at the beginning of this conversation, like we are done with that. You're done with that, and we don't want to see younger women going through that. Right, we want to prove to them that you can be, like, Epochal brave about any choice that you make. But it has to be your choice. You have to be the one to choose.

Sarah Caminiti: 34:28

Yes, you have to be the one to choose, and you have to, you have to allow yourself to be proud of yourself. Like and I think that is something in the support community especially I know this, I mean, I'm speaking mostly for myself it's you get so wrapped up in helping others all the time that you forget to, like, take a sec and remember oh my gosh, look at all this that I've done, look at this space that I've built or that I'm a part of, and these connections that I'm having with customers and like, not everyone can do this, I'm doing this and I am damn good at it, and I want to just empower everybody else to feel great about it too, because they should, and we don't do it. We never do it.

Sarah Hatter: 35:20

We never do it. I think support in the communal sense compounds. The more you receive it, the more you ask for it, the more you ask for support and then receive that support. Then it just compounds. You've now built another relationship with someone. You've gotten to know somebody else. You've gotten to know something about their work life that you didn't know before. And then the next time somebody else asks for support, you have this context of like oh, I got this great advice from Sarah, or I remember Ben McCormick wrote this blog post five years ago and here it is. And then Ben jumps into the conversation. I was like, yeah, thanks for tagging me. So those kinds of things.

Sarah Hatter: 36:00

I think I always get very surprised to see how those conversations start and how they unfold. But it all starts with somebody asking for help and it all starts with somebody being brave and being vulnerable and saying does anybody have any insight here that they can share with me? That's the hardest step to take, but I've never seen it fail. I've never seen someone ask for help or support or guidance or intros and someone say no, or for them to just get no response Like that is not going to happen, right. So it's weird how we allow the fear of the 1% of fractional possible negative outcome really drive choices that we make, especially in relationships.

Sarah Caminiti: 36:49

So much it does, it really does. And I think too that even if you put something out there and you don't receive anyone's actual lived experience or or or guidance in it, you'll get someone else that says I was just thinking about this same question yesterday. I'm alone, and now you're not alone, because that is the easiest thing to get into your head of. I'm the only one that's feeling this. No one else has gone through this.

Sarah Hatter: 37:16

And then you put it in. What we see a lot in Slack is like we have a really unique situation and, funnily enough, as a consultant, I used to joke about this all the time. Every single time I'd start a new project or someone would write me about needing help with something, every single time they would say our product is very complex. And I learned after a while of seeing this that your product is not complex. Your product is the same product Everybody else is selling. You're doing the same thing everybody else is doing. The problem is you've created a complex system. That that is the trouble. That's the pain point, right? And so we see that happen a lot in these conversations, where someone is like we have a really unique situation and then you realize like no, 15 people have just chimed in to say that they've been through that exact same situation. It's not that unique. It's not going to preclude you from getting help because you don't know how to explain the situation fully, right? You can just start the conversation.

Sarah Caminiti: 38:14

Do you think that that's something that's because of the nature of startups and the tech space, of everything? Similar but different, and it just not?

Sarah Hatter: 38:26

connected? I do, and I also think you know one of my famous quotes I quote myself all the time is support is not prescriptive right, and so it can't be People. You know again, as a consultant, people would come to me all of the time and they just wanted the template. What are the five things that I should do? What are the top 10 metrics that I should track? Just give me the template and I'll pop it in and it will be good Like no, it doesn't work that way.

Sarah Hatter: 38:55

I got to know who your customers are. I got to know what kind of product you're selling. I've got to know your price point. I've got to know, like your cloud infrastructure. I've got to know your privacy policy. I've got to know all this stuff that tells me, informs me, how to then figure out what priorities are there for you and your customers.

Sarah Hatter: 39:13

And I think you know that's the very nebulous nature, if you will, of building businesses right now is that we build businesses and products and apps at like rapid speed. I remember people used to spend years building a company, years building a company before they'd go to market, and now we're seeing investors say we have a six month ramp for profitability. That's outrageous. It's outrageous that you know what technology has has allowed us, how it's allowed us, to evolve and be progressive. But the problem with that is everybody does 50% of the work just to get it out the door Right, and then that door is swung wide open and then you're like like hang on, like holy shit, like whatever. So so yeah, I don't know. I think that there's. Definitely the nature of startups is that people do things and build things very incomplete before launch, and then they're trying to kind of build the ship while it's boarding. And then I also think there's no playbook, for there's no standardization of what you're supposed to start with and how you're you know what you're supposed to ask for customers to agree to and what your pricing should be. There's just a lot of opinions. So it's.

Sarah Hatter: 40:33

I think it puts people in a tough spot, especially when you're in a role that is customer facing and you don't have a lot of voice and agency to push changes to product or pricing or terms. Then you end up just being like, okay, I'm, I'm in a cage and this is my cage and I, this is what I've got to work with. How do I decorate this cage? How do I make this lighting a little less harsh in my jail cell, right, like we just have to work with what we've got, and so you know there's.

Sarah Hatter: 41:04

And also it's's like now we're seeing in support too, in the in the customer experience world, we're seeing all these frag, these fragments, and I, you know, we used to always fight against silos when you're working in an organization, but aren't you seeing that now in the world of cx, there's these silos that are being built around dsc and e-commerce support, enterprise support, b2b, saas support Everybody does things differently. Fintech support is a whole other beast than someone who just works at a SaaS company, a subscription company, right, and someone who's selling luggage influencer luggage on Instagram, right. Or TikTok, yeah, I have no idea If I work for a calendar app. I have no idea how to give them advice other than just be a nice person, right?

Sarah Caminiti: 41:51

Well, but that brings me to a question that I've been wondering about for a while. If folks feel the same way, and you would have, I think, the greatest knowledge of this and it's most of the time, and throughout my career, I've entered into spaces that I know nothing about, like literally nothing about and, on paper, totally not qualified when you really think about the actual purpose of the company. And then here I come and say, cool, let's just do this. And then here I come and say, cool, let's just do it. Oh, same, same. But doesn't that mean like at its core, support doesn't change?

Sarah Hatter: 42:28

No, it does not, it doesn't, it doesn't.

Sarah Caminiti: 42:32

Every single silo, and you can if you have the ability to create like a due diligence system of understanding what you need to check before before you answer the ticket. When you you come up with the like the operational aspect of things, with with defined structures and processes and policies and procedures and all of that, sure, that's going to change, no matter what, where you are, every company but at the end of the day, you know, asking thoughtful questions, providing a space for the customers to leave, feeling proud and confident to be successful on their own, and extracting the data that you need in order to hopefully have a voice somewhere to share this information, since the product is built for the people that you're talking to.

Sarah Hatter: 43:17

Hopefully is the key word there.

Sarah Caminiti: 43:21

Yeah, we're working on it, Sarah, we're working on it, but then nothing else is different. Like you can come into any company and figure out how to give good support you really can.

Sarah Hatter: 43:33

And as someone again, I you know I'm harping on this I was a consultant kind of thing, because that is a very mixed bag of experience. That's everything from Walt Disney World and Chase and Spirit Airlines to a random real estate company creating their own app in Indianapolis. I've worked for them all. If I were to go into any company and they were like, tell us what to do. We need to do good support, right, we need to do good supportcom, I mean, yeah, obviously, right. If it was just a caveman who was like me, good support I would. I would have a list of things to say. These are non-negotiables. Right.

Sarah Hatter: 44:17

Start with the most giant, robust, overkill knowledge base that you could ever think about. Every single question, even the dumb ones, even the ones you think are so dumb that if a person asked me this question, I would refund their money and say you shouldn't have access to a computer. Those questions you put in a knowledge base. You start there and you work alongside your product team and every product manager who's like I think we're going to add this feature and I think we're going to tweak this feature. You watch it like a hawk. You add every single thing with screenshots. You sign up for launch brightly, so that you don't have to update your screenshots and your knowledge base constantly. It's a shameless plug for them, right? So you start there. You start with I'm going to have an educated customer right off the bat. And then the other thing, too, that you said the confident customer.

Sarah Hatter: 45:08

How do I build the confident customer? That is, they go to the website. It clearly shows them how to log in. The word is in the upper right-hand corner, right. Just access my account. Make it easy. Right, just access my account. Make it easy. They clearly see from even before they sign up help, knowledge base, support. They can go through that stuff. They can see tutorials. They can access you. If they're in the app or using the product. There is an option for them to get support that's persistent on every page, whatever it might be. We are here. We are here to help. That's also setting up systems like your onboarding and setting up the emails and all that kind of stuff.

Sarah Hatter: 45:49

But just to start, you have to be educated customer, you have to be a confident customer. And then that's when you get into the stuff like building great language, personified language, right, that is like. This is our brand. This is what you can always expect from us, no matter who's answering your email, it's going to have this tone, we're going to use this language, we're going to have this structure. And I'm very old school right, like I would train a support person to be like you greet them, really friendly, you acknowledge their problem, you kind of repeat it to them, you send them the link from the help center, you make a, put a paragraph in as like this is what it says. You ask them to try it and you encourage them to reply to you. Yeah Right, it works.

Sarah Caminiti: 46:37

It just works. This is just the basic stuff. Yeah, even just having that first line and this is one of the biggest things that I preach when I train you have to start every single email, no matter what number it is on the thread, saying thank you for reaching out. Thanks so much, thanks for getting in touch.

Sarah Hatter: 46:48

I'm sorry you're having this issue. Let me jump into it with you and see what we can do, and I know that again, it sounds easy to us because we've been doing this for 20 years, but it is easy this is the structure right.

Sarah Hatter: 47:01

So I'm I'm now as a consumer and someone who's in their 40s and someone who's addicted to TikTok and TikTok shop. And also don't forget that I've been laying in bed for the past five days, you know, on my deathbed, thinking what last purchases impulse buys can I make before I expire. I'm I'm reminded daily about the consumer experience and how difficult it is to get people to just like, get on board with things right, and still, to this day, it's 2024. We've been talking about this stuff for 20 years at least I have, and it's like it's nuts to me. So, when we think about this idea of like, we've all had these problems. We've all had these situations. We've all been the person on the team who's desperately trying to make changes and who can't get through to people how important it is. We can't get investment from the top and product is walking all over us and engineering doesn't care. You really have to be the one who's like okay, I'm going to go back to basics, I'm going to clean up my side of the street and again like, how many times? Well, actually, Sarah, you don't know this because you've never been to an elevate in person, but I talk a lot about Andrew Rios the first time he spoke in an elevate.

Sarah Hatter: 48:13

Who doesn't love Andrew Rios? Right, I love him so much. He's so wise and he's just such a bro. I love that, right, I love he's such a dad. But he talked about when he got this job I don't remember which job it was, but I think it might've been his last job. At Turntide he put together the you know, the Rios patented support report where every week he would send out this email to the entire company that was. Here's so many emails we put in and Sarah is off this weekend because she got married Congratulations. And we're looking at, you know this many bug reports on this new feature, but overall customers are really liking it. And here's an email of the week that we got and he didn't ask permission to do that. No, he didn't even think about asking permission to do that. That's my favorite part of the story is that he wasn't about it.

Sarah Hatter: 49:05

Like he encourages people, he encourages people right and he sent it out to the entire company with that boldness, because that's his way of saying my team is so important. You've got to know what's going on right. Because if you get by, if I get buy-in from from people, when they open up that email they realize like holy shit, there's a's going on right. Because if you get by, if I get buy-in from people, when they open up that email and they realize like holy shit, there's a lot going on, like, oh my gosh, this team is just like churning through emails or oh, wow, somebody, really, they don't like this feature.

Sarah Hatter: 49:34

All of a sudden you get buy-in and all of a sudden you get people's attention and it only comes down to you saying again, I'm going to keep my side of the street clean, I'm going to do my stuff, I'm going to be the example for me and my team, we're going to set boundaries and standards and if that's how I get the rest of the team on board, then yeah, that's how we're going to do it. But we're not going to ask permission to be seen. We're not going to ask permission to come to the meeting. Or can you guys give me a breakdown of what happened?

Sarah Hatter: 50:05

No, we're not going to do that, right. We did that. It didn't work. That's why everyone is like stuck with shitty support practices now Right.

Sarah Caminiti: 50:12

So, yes, so, like I, then one of the things that I love that you brought up was that you um that through that support report, it, it, it. He showed his team that he knew their value and also, it didn't put this is something that has been driving me nuts, that I've been hearing over and over again from so many people across industries, like not just in CX, but it's this it puts like putting the responsibility on the ones that are not included to build those relationships, like spin all the energy, like trying to like become just part of their circle, and it's like no, no, if they wanted you to be in this circle, you would be in the circle. You have been doing what you need to do. Well, you don't need to sell yourself to them and and pretend to be all of these other things to like, please, these other people, because they have disrespected you for years. No, you give them data and also, why is it?

Sarah Hatter: 51:20

the story was always you gotta get a seat at the table. Support needs a seat at the table, you know.

Sarah Caminiti: 51:26

here's how to get.

Sarah Hatter: 51:27

I would say that all day long. No, but Sarah, listen, I get it too. I get it, Sarah, I don't disagree with it. But why is it that other tables that I'm fighting to get to? Why aren't people fighting to get to my table? Oh, I love that one, that's a hot take. Why isn't product fighting to get in the room with the support people and attend our all hands and listen in? Why aren't they coming to us to ask questions, right? Why isn't the entire engineering team bringing their calendar into our space and saying here's what we have planned.

Sarah Hatter: 52:01

What do you think of this? Into our space and saying here's what we have planned. What do you think of this? Think again too. Like if you're building products for people who work in seasonal your customer have. You know seasonal ebbs and flows. If you're in e-commerce or DTC, you know that September to January is peak season. Do you really think that your engineering team thinks about that when they're starting in January to plan out all of the new features and products and we're going to change the location of the hamburger menu for this ninth time in three years? You have to be the place where they come and get checks on that and say is this okay and you have to be the one who says no, that's not going to work for that time, get it done by July.

Sarah Hatter: 52:36

So, yeah, I'm kind of over this idea of like we need to fight to have our voices heard. We this idea of like we need to fight to have our voices heard. We need to fight to be in the room, like we can make our voices heard. But we also have to remind people experientially, remind them that you know you're missing out if you're not a part of our team, if you're not here, figuring out what we're doing, asking us questions and learning about what's happening over here, like you're the ones at the loss and not us. So that was the thing that the support report really turned started to really turn my mind on. Is that this idea of like? Yes, it's important that we have interdepartmental communications and support and all that kind of stuff, but I think more so we need to stop acting like. We need to stop acting like the lowest rung of the ladder if we don't want to be treated like that.

Sarah Caminiti: 53:24

Yep, yeah, because once you shift that mindset of desperation I mean, I've seen this for myself, like personally, like once I stopped approaching things of please, please, just let me in, please, just give me a chance Once you shift that mindset and instead say, no, I deserve to be this in this space, I deserve to be heard, my team deserves to have all of the notoriety that can possibly be had for them in this company, at the same level, if not more, than the other departments that they're cheering on nonstop. Yeah, just give us first an equal space and let us show you what you've been missing forever. Right, and that's when those changes could start to happen.

Sarah Hatter: 54:11

Yeah, life is change, persistent, continual, interrupting change all the time.

Sarah Caminiti: 54:19

Change is good. Change is good.

Sarah Hatter: 54:21

Change is good and I think the more you embrace it and the more you expect it and the more you make room for it, the better you're going to feel when something gets dropped in your lap. You know, we live in such a space of like this scarcity of like capacity right, and I think, as women, we know that we always underestimate our capacity, we always underestimate what we can take on and what we can bounce back from and what we can be resilient for. We need to just have the space for it in our minds that, no matter what happens, I'm going to be able to pivot, I'm going to be able to respond, I'm going to be able to figure out a solution and be proud of that. And that's not just, you know, for women in the workplace. I think that's for people in support.

Sarah Hatter: 55:05

Knowing what we know is that the ideal scenario is we are equals in a world right, when CX is the big umbrella that everybody, everybody falls under.

Sarah Hatter: 55:16

But we know that's not the truth. We know that's going to take time to get to and it's going to take us fighting for and it's going to take us being persistent. But if you have space in your mind that something's going to go wrong, something's going to be hard, I'm not going to go the, I'm not going to know the answer and I'm going to need help. Then, when that time comes, you aren't shattered by it, you aren't just shaken. And you know, I I've learned that lesson so so much over the past like six months or so. You know, personally and professionally as well, that how rigid I was holding on to like my plan and how I was just like, well, this is this, and then I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do this. And what happens when all of those this is no longer exist, what that? So, and it's taking that mindset too, of like every time one of those thises no longer exist.

Sarah Caminiti: 56:04

What that? So yeah, and it's taking that mindset too, of like, every time one of those bad things happen, it's to prepare me for the next great thing. It's all just part of that push to get to your next era.

Sarah Hatter: 56:20

You know it's right, you know it's funny too is like we've done over 45 Elevate events all over the world and it's like two or three a year and it's thousands and thousands and thousands of attendees over 5,000 easily. And every talk that people still remember and talk about and bring up to me or say to me five years later, remember that talk. They were talks from people who were talking about pretty massive upheavals in their world. Maybe it was giant mistakes that they made like the girl from Pinterest who accidentally deleted a Zendesk rule and 30,000 customer emails skipped the inbox over time Like that's an interesting talk, right. Or like Lance's talk that he gave after we came back from pandemic times where he, in the middle of 2020, his company got acquired by Uber and we're not talking got acquired by some random company. They got acquired by Uber. That is a life shift. That is a massive life shift. These are talks that people remember and they talk about all the time and I always say, when I'm looking for people on stage to tell their stories, I want you to tell a toolbox story, something that is going to give people context and information and education for when they have that same issue or that same problem, where they run into that same situation. Or I want you to be a validator and I want you to tell the people in the room who've been through the same thing You're not alone. I went through this too. We have a shared experience. You made the right choices, it's okay.

Sarah Hatter: 57:56

Those are the only two sort of topics that anyone cares about, and it's so. It's so sort of symbolic and, you know, metaphorical about life as well in relationships. The relationships that mean the most to me are the ones where we've been through shit together or I can ask you for help, and I know that you have experience and wisdom to share with me freely. That is going to help me. So all we ever really want to do, I think, is mirror back into our lives and our professions the key components of humanity and the things that make relationships important and the things that make relationships long, lasting and successful. We just need to find ways to continue to push that into our careers and our professional lives and how we manage people and how we talk to each other and how we talk about our own work. And you know, also, like what we aspire to in work, it all has to come back down to. How is human? What part of this is the humanity highlighted and where can I go from there? Yeah, that was good that was good.

Sarah Caminiti: 59:04

I feel like I've said it's true like 20,000 times on this. Call Sarah because, like that was so beautiful.

Sarah Hatter: 59:11

Um, I don't even think that I can have a follow up. You can quote me on that. No, oh there. I also think that the pseudofed's kicking, and so this might be methamphetamine. This might be an illegal substance. That has is making me talk ride this. Why didn't we just start now? Honestly, you understand why people do meth when you have been on pseudofed for five days, because it truly is like you know, I really should start a sandwich shop in lisbon. What am I doing? Doing with my life?

Sarah Hatter: 59:41

Like you just you're like I've, never, I've never been a woodworker but I think I could figure it out. That's. That's the context To have purchase your, your deathbed, tiktok purchase.

Sarah Caminiti: 59:53

Honestly, honestly, it's like I have too much confidence at this point in my place on this earth.

Sarah Caminiti: 59:58

Yep, yep, I think that that's good. We need to just embrace it, um. So, since I know that we continue this for seven more hours, but oh yeah, I don't need to have the Sudafed uh, and take over the whole system as much as I want it to, um, but I do end all of my calls by asking the folks that give me with their time to share with me what era you find yourself in or what era you think you're moving into. So, Sarah Hatter, what's your era? Yeah.

Sarah Hatter: 1:00:27

I'm in my wildflower era. I really am. I've been, you know, especially in my career and what I've done and how I've grown my companies and now grown Elevate and have seen what is possible. I've really shifted from being a walled garden to just being like I'm out there, I'm out there on the trail, let's see what blooms. That is very hard for me as someone who has been self-employed, solo entrepreneur, solo person, like I don't have anybody who's like paying my bills or helping me out. I've always been just me, me, me, me, me. I'm.

Sarah Hatter: 1:01:08

I'm really thriving right now, kind of giving myself grace to not be so aggressive and just like let's see what happens, let's take a risk, let's try something new. Let's answer that email from that salesperson who seems interesting but boring, but like what if it is something that I should be looking into, right? So I'm just really. I'm just giving myself space to try new things with with grace, and to forgive failures and to acknowledge them and to just say like, yeah, it didn't work out and I'm going to be okay and I'm going to try something else and I'm going to see where it leads me. That's hard, it's. It's not easy to be that person. It's not easy to be, just like running through the poppy fields, but I'm I'm I'm interested to see where it takes me for sure, and I'm glad that you're a part of it. I'm glad that you're here with me.

Sarah Caminiti: 1:02:04

We are in this together and I think that you will go on TikTok in probably seven minutes and it will have a wildflower, uh, tarot card.

Sarah Hatter: 1:02:14

I think so too. I think so too. I'm open to it, but uh, Sarah Hatter.

Sarah Caminiti: 1:02:22

Thank you so much, thank you for hanging with me here and thank you for doing this I appreciate you.

Sarah Hatter: 1:02:27

I appreciate the work you're doing and continue to do, even when it's hard. The world needs more people like you out here and especially more platforms for people to share their stories with freedom, without judgment and without expectation, and you're really really providing that for people, so I'm really proud of you for that.

Sarah Caminiti: 1:02:44

Thank you very much, Sarah. I'm so proud of you and everything that you've been accomplishing in these couple of months that we've been together, and then the years before, but it's going to be a. It's going to be a good era for you. I know that it is. It already is, I hope so, but go go lay down. I'll thank you, um, but go go lay down.

Sarah Hatter: 1:03:02

I'll uh thank you.

Sarah Caminiti: 1:03:07

Okay Listeners, how many of you have already purchased tickets for Denver after listening to Sarah Hatter? I would not be surprised if most of you have, or maybe you already have the tickets for the event and you're just counting down the days, we're 13 episodes into this party. If you've been with me on this journey episodes into this party. If you've been with me on this journey from day one, or if you've been with me on this journey since before day one, when I was navigating, being guests on other people's awesome podcasts, you know how important it is to be open to change and to just trying. You have just received a masterclass from Sarah Hatter on what happens when you try. She's built an entire community. So if you've ever been on the fence about trying and trusting your gut and seeing what happens, listen to this episode again, because this is someone that, even if she had fear inside of her, she said screw it. She did it anyway and look what happened. She did it because she knew that it needed to exist. She wasn't doing it for fame. She wasn't doing it for ego or for fortune. She was doing it just to celebrate the people that are around her. We are so lucky to have Sarah Hatter in this community. We are so lucky for ElevateCX and now we're in this really cool space where it's being run by the community. It has entered into a new era of its own. It's not all falling on Sarah's shoulders to maintain and grow and empower. She's created this foundation that's beautiful and special and kind and thoughtful. I mean, what she's created is Epochal and I can't wait to see how it evolves.

Sarah Caminiti: 1:04:42

If you're not part of the ElevateCX community, please join. You're going to be seeing a lot of masterclasses popping up. I'm going to be hosting a lot of masterclasses with a lot of guests that are on this podcast. We have the event in Denver, the event in London on November 8th. There's going to be a women's summit that we're going to be relaunching in 2025 in the Northeast.

Sarah Caminiti: 1:05:04

Oh, in Providence with me. Hi, I'm in Providence. Sometimes you know when special people are supposed to be in your life and I've been lucky enough to have felt that in ways I never really thought were possible, but the level in which I feel that for Sarah Hatter, there is not a word to describe it. Thank you for spending this time with me, thank you for being open to change and thank you for celebrating Sarah Hatter with me. If you feel it in yourself that a better way exists, you owe it to yourself and to those around you to try, because look at what happens when you do. Thank you again to Buzzsprout. I hope everyone was able to enjoy the new sound with this beautiful microphone. Thank you so much, priscilla. Obviously, thank you to ElevateCX. You've changed my life. Get the tickets, send me messages. I want to hear from you. Remember the small things. Ignite change. You're capable of so much more than you realize. Celebrate all that you do, thank you, thank you. Thank you for this time. Have a great day.